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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Apr-02-24, 06:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Default They Thought Ozempic Would Help Them Lose Weight. It Didn’t Work.

They Thought Ozempic Would Help Them Lose Weight. It Didn’t Work.
There is a wide range in how much weight people lose on GLP-1 medications


https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/o...share_permalink

Gifted article, should be able to open to read. I was planning to bold some of these comments, but really, all the news in this article should get significant press coverage... but likely will not. If I spent $1,000 a month, and had a risk of bone loss, paralyzed stomach, nausea etc., I'd expect immediate and permanent weight loss more than 5%. Like the doctor who suggests diet and exercise if the drugs don't work..there's a concept! Also not mentioned, how often the compounded medications do not offer a full dose, of the correct hormone formulas.

Quote:
Behind the blockbuster success of drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy is a less-noticed phenomenon: Some people don’t lose much weight on them.

There is wide variation in weight loss on these types of drugs, called GLP-1s. Doctors say roughly 10% to 15% of people who try them are “non-responders,” typically defined as those who lose less than 5% of their body weight. These patients, doctors say, don’t experience enough appetite reduction to result in significant weight loss.

Researchers are studying why some people drop a lot of weight on them while others lose little. The answers might yield broader clues about weight loss and provide more insight into these medications, which have transformed the way Americans lose weight.

Doctors believe some people might be resistant to the drugs as a result of genetic differences. Other possible reasons could include certain medical conditions and medications, how much weight a person lost before taking the drugs, and differences in how people metabolize them.

Wide range of weight loss

In a trial for the drug semaglutide—marketed as Wegovy and Ozempic—about 14% of patients lost less than 5% of their body weight. About a third lost less than 10%. In a trial for tirzepatide, sold as Mounjaro and Zepbound, 9% of people lost less than 5% of their body weight and 16% lost less than 10%.

Even among those who lost weight, amounts ranged from around 5% to upward of 20%.


Quote:
Anthony Esposito, a 68-year-old in Austin, Texas, whose body-mass index puts him in the overweight category, wanted to take a GLP-1 drug to lose about 10 pounds. He stopped Wegovy after a month because it made him feel sick, and then tried Ozempic for about six weeks. Esposito says that he didn’t lose a pound and that his appetite remained the same.

“It did not budge the needle,” he says.

For other people, initial success fizzles. Melissa Traeger, a 40-year-old in Nashville, Tenn., started off at nearly 300 pounds and lost about 10 in the first six weeks. Then the weight loss stalled. She shed another few pounds in the next couple of months, leveling off at 285.

“There was appetite suppression the first one-and-half months but it’s kind of just fallen off after that,” she says. Traeger plans on switching to another GLP-1 medication.

Novo Nordisk, which makes Ozempic for Type 2 diabetes and Wegovy for obesity, says that not all patients will respond to all therapies, and notes that the overwhelming majority of patients treated with Wegovy lost some weight in the semaglutide trial. Eli Lilly, which markets Mounjaro for diabetes and Zepbound for obesity, says that obesity is a heterogeneous disease and that most people in its clinical studies achieved at least a 20% weight loss at the highest dose.

Why results vary

Obesity in some people might be driven by something besides the hormones that weight-loss drugs mimic to suppress appetite, says Grunvald. In those cases, the drugs probably won’t make much of a difference.

People who have had obesity their whole lives might have genetic mutations preventing them from responding strongly to the drugs, says Dr. Steven Heymsfield, a professor who studies obesity at Louisiana State University’s Pennington Biomedical Research Center. And people who metabolize the drugs quickly might not experience as much of an effect, he says.

Other medical issues could dampen the effect of weight-loss drugs. People with Type 2 diabetes typically lose less than those without the condition, Grunvald says.

Diet and exercise habits before starting the drugs can influence how much weight one loses. People who have already shed a lot of weight through lifestyle changes might not drop much more on the drugs, Grunvald says.

Other medications can play a role, too. Many drugs—such as certain types of antidepressants and antipsychotics—have weight gain as a side effect


Quote:
“You could have some other drug interactions that prevent the effect of the GLP-1 drugs from working,” says Heymsfield.

If the drugs don’t work

When people don’t respond to a GLP-1, Grunvald says he looks to see if there is room for improvement in diet and exercise. Then he will suggest trying a different drug in the same class, or adding other medications, such as an older weight-loss drug. Physicians will also discuss bariatric surgery with patients who meet the criteria.

Doctors typically have patients try the new drugs for three to six months and increase the dose each month to see if patients respond.

Dr. Gitanjali Srivastava, an associate professor and co-director at the Vanderbilt Weight Loss Center, says she had a patient who tried multiple GLP-1 medications and none worked. The patient did respond to one of the older weight-loss medications that typically don’t result in as much weight loss.

Genetic testing can yield clues for patients who have had obesity since childhood and are entirely resistant to even the highest doses of Mounjaro, says Dr. Myra Ahmad, chief executive of Mochi, a telehealth obesity clinic. If they test positive for certain genes, they can try a medication for genetically linked obesity, she says.

Battling frustration

Even when people don’t lose weight on the GLP-1 drugs, they might be improving health in other ways, such as lowering blood-sugar levels and helping to manage diabetes.

“Considering ‘response’ solely in terms of weight loss, and not broader outcomes for health and quality of life, overlooks many of the benefits seen with treating obesity beyond weight loss,” says Dr. Jaime Almandoz, medical director of the Weight Wellness Program and associate professor of internal medicine at UT Southwestern in Dallas.

Still, for people who have been hoping the new drugs will be a panacea, not losing weight on them can be frustrating.

Some have been struggling with weight for years, and might have already tried bariatric surgery or older medications. “Yet another option not working can feel very demoralizing,” says Ahmad.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Apr-02-24 at 11:31.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Apr-02-24, 09:18
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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I remember seeing a similar article a while back - maybe a couple months ago?

There were several people mentioned in the article I saw who lost no weight at all on the GLP-1 drugs. I don't recall how long it said they took the drugs though. (Thought I brought it over here but can't figure out where I posted it)

From talking to someone who took Wegovy for several months, it seems that a lot of people have zero effect from the lowest strength (1st month) of Wegovy or Zepbound. The dosage increases each month, so that eventually they'd have some appetite suppression from it - but some needed to be on the 3rd or 4th strength (3-4 months) before they felt any effects from it at all.

I don't know if the ones who were more resistant to the GLP-1 drugs were more obese or less obese - My guess is that they were probably more obese - that some of the same factors (hormones?) that cause insulin resistance, weight gain, diabetes, and increased appetite, are so high that it takes far more GLP-1 to overcome those factors enough to suppress appetite.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Apr-03-24, 04:45
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
These patients, doctors say, don’t experience enough appetite reduction to result in significant weight loss.


This fits what Calianna is reporting. They aren't even trying to cut down, expecting the drug to "do it all."

Which makes me even angrier when the ads (I watch free Youtube, so I stay current for these drugs say a person can lose an average of 35 pounds.

Which is significant enough to make a difference, certainly -- that was the amount I lost at the last, surprising me. And it was apparently weight I needed to lose, because it is almost-normal, the way I regulate my weight now.

Not that exercise made a dang bit of difference, ever. I lost all that weight with only pleasure walking, like flat hikes in the woods. And I live on the third floor -- that's got to count for something!

But now I know everything we've been told since the food pyramid has been setting people up for failure. I'm sadly not surprised so many are now in a crisis that is not of their own making. They trapped me too. I am sympathetic to how hopeless the situation can seem.

It's been shown it is equally damaging to a child to either neglect OR overindulge them. But it's constant decisions through the day that keep our parenting in the middle, where it's safe for them.

We didn't need to be wrenched from a problematic situation to a disastrous one. And I'm starting to realize it was on purpose.

I'm on a watchlist for retracted studies and papers. It's an avalanche. It's a hidden rebellion by real scientist demanding real science return.

Gives me hope for the future. Because only science gives replicable results.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Apr-03-24, 04:49
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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I need a shirt that says, "But I digress."

A point I was trying to get to is that they don't trust any diet plan or exercise program now. Good or bad, they might not feel this is something they can do by themselves, at all.

They're sick and it's a medical crisis. But they are being "helped" the wrong way.

Having observed conformity for a long time, and never getting the hang of it, either, I can see how learned helplessness results when everyone is being given the wrong advice.

On purpose.
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Old Wed, Apr-03-24, 05:01
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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ROFL

I need the same Tshirt!!!

Quote:
Still, for people who have been hoping the new drugs will be a panacea, not losing weight on them can be frustrating.



This really irked me. Weight loss takes serious effort. Its not quick. Its full of temptations.

From Easter candy to Ben n Jerrys on sale.

Weight loss takes effort!
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Apr-03-24, 05:09
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
obesity is a heterogeneous disease


Since I had no idea what they meant, I found this paper:

Quote:
The presence or absence of adiposopathy may therefore help explain the heterogeneity of obesity and its manifestations because the pathogenic potential of excess body fat is conditioned on adipose tissue dysfunction/ectopic fat deposition rather than simply on increased fat mass alone.

Body Fat Distribution: A Key Factor in Obesity Heterogeneity
The ability of the abdominal subcutaneous depot to expand is the physiological response to a positive energy balance leading to an increased demand for triglyceride storage in adipose tissue. It is important to note, however, that the body’s response to excess energy accumulation is not uniform; there is significant individual variation in how much and where fat is deposited or stored.
Cardiovascular and Metabolic Heterogeneity of Obesity


And then I looked at this quote in a new light:

Quote:
People who have had obesity their whole lives might have genetic mutations preventing them from responding strongly to the drugs, says Dr. Steven Heymsfield, a professor who studies obesity at Louisiana State University’s Pennington Biomedical Research Center. And people who metabolize the drugs quickly might not experience as much of an effect, he says.


That is their strategy moving forward. Like diabetes, obesity itself is now a chronic condition to be managed with more and more interventions.

Except it's not a disease. It's a fake-food-induced metabolic condition, and this is not treatment. It's symptom suppression.

I think they can do more than "make the patient comfortable." Do they regard the population to be so impervious to advice when they have been giving the wrong message for four decades.

They WILL NOT ever blame themselves for all the big corp corruption of the process which is now a crisis in the scientific community, rebelling against the ludicrous claims that corporate scientists proliferate.

The guilty fear retribution of some kind for their actions. And come to think of it, maybe they are right about that. They just keep getting us angrier and angrier. Some of them don't even have a customer service number handy. You have to ask a chatbot for it. That's all they are good for: it's AI to send to to another passive page on the site for "help."

Last edited by WereBear : Wed, Apr-03-24 at 05:16.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Apr-03-24, 09:03
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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I had to look up heterogeneity:

Quote:

noun: heterogeneity

the quality or state of being diverse in character or content.


So obesity is due to a diverse set of circumstances?

Well, let's see - there's being female:

Biologically speaking, the female body is designed to reproduce. In order to effectively be a fertile female who can maintain a pregnancy and nurture a baby through infancy, you need to be able to maintain enough fat stores to nurture a baby from conception through birth, plus you need enough extra energy stored up to nurture (breastfeed) that baby through infancy - even during times of famine.

Survival of the fittest - During a famine, the naturally waif thin woman would have been more likely to starve to death. If she didn't starve to death, she might have been less fertile. If she got pregnant, more likely to have a miscarriage due to the baby simply not getting enough nutrients. If the pregnancy made it to term, the baby would likely have been smaller, and she would would have had a more difficult time providing enough milk for the baby to survive infancy.

The female who gains and retains weight more easily - they're more likely to make it through that famine, produce a healthy infant, and be able to provide enough milk for that infant to hopefully wait out the famine.

But then you also have women whose bodies have decided that surely she's always on the verge of pregnancy and major famine at the same time - so the body does everything it can to pack on as much weight as possible, and holds onto that fat fiercely in spite of any and all interventions.


That's before you get into food availability that is geared towards naturally carby foods that are more readily stored for the winter, and converted to glucose to be stored in the body as fats. A few men also enter the picture of becoming overweight at this point, simply because of the amount of carbs consumed.


And that went on for thousands of years before ever getting to the last 40-some years where everyone was told to cut down on dietary fats and meat, eat more starches, grains, beans, and fruit, leading to more obesity - not just women, but also many more men.

Which was before highly addictive refined carb based UPF foods became the primary source of calories for the vast majority of the population.

Now it's easy even for men to fall into storing up as much as possible for the potential famine because the grocery stores, restaurants, convenience stores, and vending machines are full of addictive UPFs.

Unfortunately, I don't think most people who are addicted to UPFs have any idea that's what's going on - oh they might say "I just can't give up bread" or "I can't turn down chocolate chip cookies", but they don't equate it with the term addiction because they're not seeing as a chemical dependency (such as with heroin, alcohol, or nicotine).

So they're very willing to accept the current explanation that obesity is a disease that needs to be treated medically. And if the GLP-1 medication doesn't work, then medical science will soon come up with a new drug treatment to help them.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Apr-05-24, 00:03
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Unfortunately, I don't think most people who are addicted to UPFs have any idea that's what's going on - oh they might say "I just can't give up bread" or "I can't turn down chocolate chip cookies", but they don't equate it with the term addiction because they're not seeing as a chemical dependency (such as with heroin, alcohol, or nicotine).

So they're very willing to accept the current explanation that obesity is a disease that needs to be treated medically. And if the GLP-1 medication doesn't work, then medical science will soon come up with a new drug treatment to help them.


Excellent points, and that is indeed the problem. It IS an addicting drug. They spent billions to make sure you "can't eat just one." And this isn't fair play like a pie contest at the state fair, where everyone starts with the same ingredients.

They have created addictive fake food. So effective that we don't even know how much fake food is mixed into the real food. Like, I can make my own cheesecake, sweetened with chunks of fruit. And then I look at the plates of GOO that my grocery sells as cheesecake.

The people who are horrified by steak and eggs for breakfast think it's better for them to have a granola bar fortified with soy protein.

What I'm asking is, do some people not even understand what food is? I have been told quite seriously that of course we are getting the deep-fried not-potato vegetable because it's "healthier."

Then I remember doctors don't get nutrition courses, and neither do we.
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Old Fri, Apr-05-24, 12:04
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Excellent points, and that is indeed the problem. It IS an addicting drug. They spent billions to make sure you "can't eat just one." And this isn't fair play like a pie contest at the state fair, where everyone starts with the same ingredients.

They have created addictive fake food. So effective that we don't even know how much fake food is mixed into the real food. Like, I can make my own cheesecake, sweetened with chunks of fruit. And then I look at the plates of GOO that my grocery sells as cheesecake.

The people who are horrified by steak and eggs for breakfast think it's better for them to have a granola bar fortified with soy protein.

What I'm asking is, do some people not even understand what food is? I have been told quite seriously that of course we are getting the deep-fried not-potato vegetable because it's "healthier."

Then I remember doctors don't get nutrition courses, and neither do we.


That's the problem right there.

I don't know that it's really their fault though. Even my generation was eating a lot of processed foods. There weren't nearly as many back then, most of them weren't eaten on a daily basis, and a lot of the ones we had weren't nearly as processed as they are now.

But we still had pop tarts, instant breakfast, Tang, sodas, Hawaiian Punch. With the exception of the sodas, all of those were considered to be relatively healthy - The pop tarts had "real fruit" in them (not as much as would be in the jam you smeared on your white bread toast - but still, REAL fruit!), the Instant Breakfast had a bunch of added vitamins and minerals (and lots of sugar, but apparently mixing it with your own REAL milk counteracted that!), the Tang had Vitamin C (and was mostly sugar - but it's what the astronauts drank in space! How could it possibly be bad for you?), Hawaiian Punch was made with real fruit juice (10% - but still, REAL fruit juice!).

A lot of people don't really recognize real food in it's natural form, much less know what to do with it. They're just too far removed from it.

Not to mention the anti-meat, anti-egg, anti-fat mantra from the last 40 years - they just eat whatever is presented to them as being healthy.
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