*edited to dial my tone down a bit, I know you're just raising some points Seejay)

I don't know if the conditions you list are caused or not by being fat. I have HBP and I'm thin. However, I would not be comfortable claiming that NO condition is linked to excess weight. Your list is of just a few.

If a young person asked if it were okay to gain lots of weight by eating whatever she wanted, what would we say? If she asked if she could expect no effects from it, what should we say?

They do have a point there. I have friends who go in with anything and get told "It's your weight." Understandable for blood pressure or diabetes, ridiculous for an earache or a sprained wrist.

I could even see it if doctors understood the damage metabolic derangement does to the body. But they are not.

I have heard of such things happening. Agree, if the doc is attributing an earache to weight. But it is possible it was just brought up by itself? I think that there are rules now that general practitioners must mention it, (not sure about this). I'm sure your friends wouldn't name and shame the doctor on a blog, or "report" him/her for harassment, etc., ridiculous stuff like that.

It's hard to describe. Here's an example: 500 pound teenager tragically died in a fire as they could not rescue her. The firefighters and rescue personnel are being called "fatphobic": (WARNING: PROFANITY)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...7&id=1573224930

When I mentioned "warm and fuzzies," I wasn't suggesting that "fat" people don't deserve love. I'd be in big trouble if that's the case.

I meant that this movement for advocating fat people is not something I think is a good idea. I don't think we should offer any unsolicited advice or even broach the subject of someone's weight. But I also think the notion of telling them to embrace their obesity like it's something special is a bad idea. It's like encouraging my 18 month-old grandson to jump off the furniture. Reinforcing a negative thing is just not right. And I'm sorry, no matter what the reason for your obesity, no matter how great your self-image and confidence is, it is NEVER a good thing to be obese.

We're still wonderful people and deserve good things, including love and acceptance. I'm not suggesting that anyone doesn't deserve those things. But saying there should be a cause to celebrate our obesity is just absurd, in my opinion.

I totally agree that I don't think fatness is something we should strive for, and if we're unlucky enough to be morbidly obese or bigger, then for myself I believe this is an unhealthy state....but, I believe the food intake is more important than the result on the scales or in clothing size. I've lost some weight, but not anywhere near enough, but now I face difficulties with losing, but because I'm eating the right diet, my hba1c is great, my liver enzymes are now normal, my cholesterol is great, and scans two years apart have shown my liver has gone from marked fatty liver to completely normal - the wonders of a low carb, real food diet.

Though I do believe in the right of larger people to believe their bodies are beautiful - all shapes and sizes can have beauty. I don't believe this is promoting fatness. I think it's important for more examples of people of all shapes and sizes to be shown. Conceptions of beauty are becoming far too narrow.

But I reserve the right to hate my own body

So very true, and not just with issue of size, but also their distribution.

In my adolescence, I seemed surrounded by "Debbie Reynolds playing a cheerleader." Short, athletic, busty, cute. On a good day I can do cute. As a tall adolescent with big feet and shoulders twice as wide as the girls I towered over, my extra fifteen pounds tormented me. I'd be fine with that figure now.

But as soon as I got away from an impossibly stressful environment and my ED, and moved to a different state, I was back to thinking of myself as merely overweight. But while I may have been a bit too pear-shaped for my social programming, my long legs were now in a situation to make up for the rest of my figure, and I was considered attractive for the first time in my aroom adult life.

Because we do come in all shapes and sizes. And they are all beautiful.

It's our perspective that shifts: not the person.

And for the skeptical, a site devoted to tales of people getting poor healthcare. Because of their weight.

First, do no harm: real stories of fat prejudice in health care
https://fathealth.wordpress.com/

Of course, part of our discussion is the fact that metabolic derangement is the cause of overweight, illness, and the "skinny sick." But it should have no effect on many of the issues the people on the blog have.

Another wrinkle: the "Fit and Fat" Fat Acceptance athlete Ragen Chastain. She claims fitness since she participates in many athletic events. But the truth seems to be different:

Dances with Facts
https://truthaboutragen.wordpress.com/

Ragen Chastain kind of confuses me as to what she wants or is trying to accomplish. Strange. What do you guys feel about Tess Holliday?

I used to read Ragen Chastain's blog. What became apparent to me is that there was the party line and that was it. People were not allowed to disagree with anything. I'm not talking just about moderating to prevent trolls and delete personal attacks.All disagreement was prohibited if it strayed from the party line, no matter how civil the disagreement. Also anger was encouraged and often nasty anger as long as it was directed against those who were perceived as the enemy of the view as expressed by Chastain. I just stopped reading the blog considering it a waste of time.

I said this before on this thread and it still holds as my opinion. There is a big difference between supporting the issue of social justice for fat people and supporting what are often either unsubstantiated or incorrect views on the science of obesity. The issues of why people are fat and remain fat are separate from the issues of how fat people should be treated as equal members of the human race.

Jean

After reading the stories about health care providers (questionable!) and their treatment of obese patients, I'm more cynical than ever about docs and doctoring. Even if millions of patients get excellent and compassionate care, the few who get up the courage to post their stories are probably the tip of the iceberg.

I had to look up Tess Holiday. If she wants to promote herself on the internet, so be it. That's how she makes a buck.

As for cheating on amateur sports events, why bother?? Decades ago, I staked my claim on finishing a marathon before it was trendy for everyone to try. I did it for real in 4:17, and they can't take that away from me!

I consider myself a rational (usually) and emotionally stable person. I've never wanted to accept myself fat. My self-awareness steps in to embrace the benefits of healthy eating, exercise, spiritual curiosity, and social responsibility. Best I can do!

Wishing the best for everyone here.

Do we think young people now think that eating whatever one likes and getting really fat, could be okay, thanks to the fat acceptance movement?

The young people I know, the ones who eat like everyone else but unfortunately get extra fat where others don't - they are sad about the fat, but not going for it, if you know what I mean.

It's like drinking in a way. Lots of people drink alcohol; a smaller percent of people drink massive amounts; a smaller percent of those people get deep into alcoholism and liver damage. But no one starts out thinking they will be the one to get the worst outcome.

Same with eating. Everyone starts out eating our cultural mass carbs; a percent really pack on the pounds; a smaller percent of that totally deranges the metabolism (but others just get fatter and fatter without derangement ).

So I guess I'd say - you're playing Russian roulette and hoping you won't get the bad outcomes, if you get too fat. I would not do it on purpose, that's for sure.

That's a good question and I really don't know. I'm afraid that some of the more extremist views are filtering down and will poison what should be a good movement. I hate to put in another link, but notice the dietary "advice." I hope this stuff is not taken seriously by anyone and is indeed on the fringe and that the poster is trolling. But we all know the power of social media. I have noticed a "who cares" attitude (normal to feel invincible at that age) among younger people about weight/food and can't help but wonder. Warning, F word.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BE94TFwkBGj/

Mice, there will never be a perfect world. There will always be people who strongly believe that the most unhealthy of behaviors are normal and good, because they want to continue doing them, without feeling guilty about them.

I don't want people who are morbidly obese to feel guilty. I want them to feel empowered to take back the responsibility for eating from the corporations that thrust addictive substances in their faces, all day long, and pay to have their caregivers and their governments tell them that those substances are the healthiest things they can eat.

You cannot blame an addict for being an addict, nor for doing her damnedest to justify it. That's what addicts do.

What you can do is whatever small amount any one of us can to help parents make better choices for their kids, and the addict to learn new ways of eating that lets them cut out the foods they can't eat in moderation.

Absolutely. I don't want the morbidly obese to feel guilty either. Dieting or even just striving to eat properly is hard enough for most people, obese or not, and I don't want someone telling my (hypothetical) kid that it's perfectly okay to eat themselves into immobility. I will blame those who deliberately spread such drivel. They don't care about addictive carbs or governmental policy wrt food. What I'm trying to do here is point out a rabbit hole that has developed among the body acceptance movement (which is wonderful), just as you'd point out a dangerous riptide in a beautiful beach.

Well, I'm out, guys. Haven't had a good internet argument in a while, it's been fun! And you all are intelligent, thoughtful "adversaries".