Ted Naiman with his description of the Personal Fat Threshold. Many charts from the book...easy to understand.

https://youtu.be/VWfpKJ9ltdk

Solution if overfat...the P:E Diet of course.

Merpig,

I don't think this thread is for you.

I really don't want to discourage people from trying P:E plan. I believed the compete and total BS that protein "is like chocolate cake" for a long time and it SET ME BACK MANY YEARS trying to work low carb high fat. I know low carb high fat works for a lot of people, but the low carb camp keeps putting out bad information about protein and exercise that is not supported by the science.

Protein does not make blood glucose "soar" when following a low carbohydrate diet. I don't know if you have a health issue or what the situation is.

Again, this is not supported by the science when following a low carbohydrate diet. I have tested it to death with a continuous blood glucose monitor.

As Dr. Naiman says, if you eat a lot of extra fat with the protein, it does make you more insulin resistant and yes you will see higher glucose because of the fat that came with the protein. But protein by itself does not do this.

Ok, I'll just bow out then and unsubscribe from this thread.

Seriously? Sorry, but who are you to tell anyone that this thread is not for them? We all have a right to post on any thread we like. I applaud Merpig and others for wanting to learn about a different plan, and then offer their own experience with the approach -- information that might help others with the same experience.

No one plan is right for everyone, and one of the basic tenets of this forum is to be supportive of each other in our individual journeys toward health. We're all here to learn and to share experiences. Telling someone they're wrong and don't belong here is not very supportive in my opinion.

Ladies, to put the mod hat on... let's keep it civil. We permit and encourage discussion regarding the different aspects of different plans. Now, if you want to create a Buddies/Challenge thread in that sub-forum, Key Tones, we generally won't let people crash the party so to speak and try to debate or dissuade people from their chosen plan. Maybe that would be a good idea; I would join. But around the rest of the forum, debate and personal experiences - good and bad - are fair game.

Understood. We've just had this discussion before, so I did not understand why again.

I ended up with neuropathy in my feet which probably never would have happened if I had gotten my blood sugar down into my current range having lost more than 50 additional pounds by switching from LCHF to high protein mod fat. So, my personal health was actually damaged while I believed that increasing the fat was supposed to be the answer and I also lived in fear of driving my glucose up with protein, which turned out to be false. Megan Ramos has talked about people getting diabetic complications, even at prediabetic blood glucose levels. Unfortunately, that was me. My blood glucose and weight came down with more protein, it did not go up!

I was stuck in the 250 range at least since 2009-2010, trying various things that temporarily worked, only to return back to the 250s, and very quickly. Like very high fat 80%, fat fasts, Kwasniewki's Optimal Diet, Fung Fasting with LCHF, and I even bailed and tried the potato hack/McDougall (they put out the promise of weight loss and resolving diabetes just as hard as the low carbers do) thinking low carb does not work and believe it or not, then got a gastric sleeve - and that made me even fatter (lost to 225, ended up at 277 lbs). It has been a long road.

I believe people could reverse diabetes and prediabetes if they can't get out of those ranges on LCHF if they would just try this. But most of the low carb world does not believe it.

Here is a snip of an interview I watched on Instagram of Dr. Naiman. I can't fix the sound - it played this way on Instagram.

Here, he explains the one dietary thing that the data shows those rare unicorns that have lost weight and kept it off have in common - it is the higher protein % of their diet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz6yZrL2FPU&t=28s

Great website. I like the healthy oils section.

I like Mark’s Daily Apple Definitive Guide to Oils. I use Avocado Oil for nonstick cooking, but nothing is better than butter for scrambled eggs.

I like looking up the oils when I see them as ingredients. I don’t use much oil or fat anymore at this stage, I prefer to get my fat from meat and eggs.

Definitely the industrial seed oils are damaging to health.

Dr. Ted Naiman's episode is up on Jimmy Moore's podcast.

It is called "Real Talk" Episode 172. I hadn't realized that he changed the name of his show and seems to have two active shows (no longer Livin' La Vita Low Carb). So, it is still on Apple products, if you listen there.

livinlavidalowcarb.com/ketotalk/2020/07/02/172-proteincast-dr-ted-naiman-explains-how-to-balance-protein-and-energy-to-perfection/

Oh, actually, the interview with Jimmy Moore and Dr. Ted Naiman is on Youtube as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myPX1F_y2Ak

Thank you sharing, Key Tones. I’d be interested in a thread in the buddy forum. It sounds like you have been through a lot. I’m trying higher protein without extra fat now. I’ve tried different strategies and I can’t find the mental health I had the first couple HFLC keto years.

Hi Keytones!

Do you mind if I ask a question regarding exercise?

I just heard a podcast with Dr. Naiman in which the interviewer (the Diet Doctor guy, Bret Scher?) asked about daily exercise - “isn’t recovery an issue?” I would love to create a daily exercise routine (I am a huge creature of habit), but the common view seems to be that daily intense exercise is a bad idea for recovery. Dr. Naiman seemed to be saying that he thinks daily is ok for recovery as long as the volume is low enough.

Does that sound right? Can you do daily intense exercise to failure (following Dr. Naiman’s protocol)?

Thanks!

Hey NHSB. I'm not KeyTones, but I can confirm that you can do daily strength training and not get DOMS. That used to be one of my excuses for not doing it daily. I think the lower volume and limiting the time to 10 minutes is part of it, but I think another part for me is having eliminated almost all seed oils. I did this about a year ago because of bad shoulder tendinitis that just wouldn't go away, and now I can do a basic workout every day - no soreness - for basically the first time in my life. Oh, and no exacerbation of the tendinitis or other chronic inflammatory stuff like the arthritis in my spine or carpal tunnel syndrome.

I don't have a pull-up bar and I won't be spending money any time soon, so my basic workout is from Dr Chatergee found here. It's pushups (I do them against the kitchen counter), squats, tricep dips and calf raises. I alternate between that and simple dumbell stuff + lunges because I think if you're going to keep it short and sweet, you should try to avoid just doing the same thing over and over, or else it's only certain muscles getting stronger and adapting too well. I throw in yoga here and there, too.

Thank you Kristine! Just curious, are you seeing progressive strength increases with daily intense training?