Absolutely, and I think this is one of the reasons probably that Doreen felt the need to address forum policy on discussion of water fasting. There's a reason prolonged fasting went out of favour, there were a number of deaths years ago--some of them likely caused by people missing signs of dangerous breakdown of body proteins, especially of protein in the heart, obesity can sometimes dangerously mask an excessive loss of lean mass, doctors have access to things like dexa scans, creatine kinase tests etc. to help minimize risk.

Dr Fung's reluctance to acknowledge this potential problem is why I'm reluctant to recommend his book to people who could otherwise really benefit from it. He could easily change his tone and acknowledge the potential (in most cases minimal) risk with longer term fasting. It also raises concerns to me about what other things is he dismissing out of had that should be considered.

I have but only skimmed the book. The only fasting recommendations I see are 24 and 36 hr protocol at the end of the book. Unless I'm missing it, which is entirely possible, I don't think he recommends extended fasting without consulting a doctor.

Anyone else?

Dr. Fung does recommend medical consultation for anyone considering fasting. It's a sound recommendation. He works with his patients very closely.

I think you're right, Thud, in terms of what he actually recommends re: fasting but throughout the book, and in some places on the website, he gives the impression that lean mass loss is "no problem" in any circumstance. I frankly don't think it is a big problem (or a problem at all for most people) but I wish he would leave no room for his protocol to be dismissed as a faddish or quack diet. I work in the mainstream nutrition world and any little thing that can be used to undermine a non-standard approach will be -- with much disdain.

I think you're right. With low carb, I tend to wince a little when somebody says protein can turn into sugar, or that ketones disappear from the urine because they're being more efficiently used for energy. There's no reason that either of these assumptions should keep somebody from successfully navigating a low carb way of eating, even if they just take them at face value--but people can look at these not quite technically correct explanations and doubt the veracity of the overall picture being painted.

I, personally, respect Dr. Fung's work very much, however there are a number of times that I cringe in both his blog posts and his book. His snarky tone at times and his habit of saying things like "that's just stupid" in regards to how people used to think make me hesitate in recommending him to others. I know people who would benefit greatly from his ideas, but they will be starting out resistant, and might easily dismiss him for the attitude in some of his comments.
I wish he would just write straight, without adding any "personality".

Today I had an appointment with my VA diabetes doc. She wanted me to eat at least 50-75 carbs per meal. I laughed and told her " YOUR FIRED ". Now I'm looking for a low carb doctor in central Florida. With the LCHF program I'm finally in somewhat control of my BG.

Too bad you cannot work with her, but it's not always possible.

Right now I'm trying one meal in the evening. Using coffee with a bit of cream for breakfast, and that's it until dinner.

Drinking water or herbal teas, and staying busy, is key for me.

Doreen, thanks for the moderation and concern about extended fasts. I do think that if a person has underlying health issues, they shouldn't do anything extreme without discussing it with their physician first (even if they don't have underlying health issues).

I have a personality that can tend toward extremes, so I try and watch it. Back in the early 90's I decided to become a low-fat vegan. And having the "all or nothing" personality that I do, I was absolutely perfect about not having any animal products -- even eschewed supplements or medication if made with an animal product.

But I, apparently, need some animal protein. I really tried to balance the diet so I got enough vegetable protein, but apparently it didn't work. I ended up in the hospital with horrible pain from gallstones. The doctor walks in and says, "are you trying to kill yourself?" I had depleted my body of B vitamins, magnesium, and all sorts of other nutrients. I had been losing weight, but it was because of malnutrition -- it took about 2 years to do that to myself. But, if I had cheated a little, or moderated a little, or just not been quite so extreme, I probably would have been fine.

So now, even though I'm having a lot of success with IF, I don't try and push it and do extended water fasting -- knowing my own personality traits. This is something I may have tried in the past. Just best to know yourself I guess.

Disappointed in the VA, but what can we expect, if anyone they have to follow USDA food guidelines. But many of Dr Westman and Dr Yancy's low carb studies were conducted at the Durham VA. It was two vet patients that convinced Dr Westman to go to Dr Atkin's clinic, and then conduct a clinical study on LC at the VA.
I previously gave you a few lists to start looking for another doctor, the OMA "find a clinician" should have some with all the new training done at their meetings. Good luck!
Only put in first two digits of your zip: https://netforumpro.com/eWeb/Dynami...bCode=IndSearch

There is a training session in Orlando in August..not for you to sign up, but check out the practioners in attendance

Don't know what's going on with Dr. Fung, but his latest blog post is full of spelling errors and is more erratic than usual. Could it be he is no longer writing it? Hmmm. Success?

That's what I mean! Spelling and grammer errors plus swearing, phrases like
OMFG and ranting about physics envy greatly reduce his credibility!
The last post could have been a great summary of why CICO does not work, which I could forward to people, but because of the way he writes, I will not.
Too bad ) :

Agree with the Fung observations. He is obviously frustrated with the prevalent misinformation that when followed is causing sickness and death. However, he has become a respected authority at this time and needs to understand how to discredit misinformation without using an insulting and crass way. Sometimes, a deft touch with a response is far more effective than the out-and-out rant which is his blog of 26 May. I'm certain he's written this, as he uses some of these terms in his videos and presentations. He needs an editor/ diplomat to tone-check his writing.

That being said, I agree with his points about CICO and a calorie is a calorie being misapplied and linked to the first law of thermodynamics. We've had several discussions on this forum, and I firmly believe that it is misapplied information. So with some deft edits of the more crass info, his 26 May entry is a blog topic having merit.

He has always, IMO, been one to post first and think about it second. I wonder if some of the people who have been following him for a long time gently recommended that he give himself a few hours between writing and posting, if that would help.

It's easy to build up a head of steam. It's less easy to maintain it for an entire day.