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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 18:05
amyella's Avatar
amyella amyella is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: carb cycle
Stats: 113/109/? Female 61 inches
BF:/~15%/11%
Progress: 38%
Default Any Tips for SLOW losses?

Hi all -- I need your experienced suggestions. I've been following CKD for 8 weeks now. I realize that this is not a very long time, but regardless, my progress has been SO SLOW and very MINIMAL. Granted, I'm relatively small to begin with, but I am light years from being super lean. I was wondering if anyone had any tips for me? I'm very strict about my diet, no cheats ever, and have relatively clean 24 hour carb ups. I lift as heavy as I can to failure. My cardio is long and slow like a brisk walk on the treadmill, or walking the escalator stairs. Here's is my week:

Saturday: carb up. Mostly cereals, pasta, fruit, the occassional cupcake.
Sunday: lift Upper body empty stomach plus 30-40 min cardio (this gets me into ketosis the fastest)
Monday: lift Lower body empty stomach plus 30-40 min cardio
Tues: 45 min cardio
Wed: am abs class 30 min, 45 min cardio later
Thur: off
Frid: am abs class sometimes depletion workout/cardio later (if I have the strength)

This is my fitday just to show a sample of my foods. Most days are NOT complete, I generally forget to log dinner. But as long as I know where I am by dinner I can judge my appropriate meal accordingly. http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Public...l?Owner=amyella
I eat between 1300-1500 calories a day, 65%-70% fat, 25-30% protein. I'm 5'1" and approx 110 pounds and 15% bodyfat (hard to say, I can't find anyone who can do a decent 7 site measurement). I have pics of my progress, but I'm too embarrassed to post them. If you think it will help to judge if my progress is normal (maybe I'm just too impatient?) I'd email them.

I drink tons of water. I just can't figure out what I need to tweak to get there? It's so frustrating! Should I eliminate nuts? All dairy (I eat a minimal amount of cheese and occassionally some cream if I need to up my fat) but that's it. I just don't know what to do.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my long post!
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 19:33
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, I'm just running out the door here, but...

YOU'RE LIFTING EMPTY!!??!! Nooooo!

And you're training isn't CKD at all. You're only lifting twice or sometimes three times a week, and you're doing WAYYYY too much cardio, and of the wrong type, IMHO. Have you actually read the book?

This wouldn't work for me either, so I'm not surprised it's not working for you.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 21:45
amyella's Avatar
amyella amyella is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: carb cycle
Stats: 113/109/? Female 61 inches
BF:/~15%/11%
Progress: 38%
Default

Yes, I have read the book. And I'm also working with Kristi: http://www.kristilarsenfitness.com/ following the plan she helped put together for me.

I'm not claiming to be an expert and this exact routine worked for her. Maybe it just won't work for me so I'm open to adjustments.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 21:55
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Kristi has you lifting weights first thing empty?
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 22:40
amyella's Avatar
amyella amyella is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: carb cycle
Stats: 113/109/? Female 61 inches
BF:/~15%/11%
Progress: 38%
Default

yes, to get into ketosis as quickly as possible.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Oct-07-04, 23:53
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Kristi has you lifting weights first thing empty?


Yeah!

What?
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Oct-08-04, 08:47
amyella's Avatar
amyella amyella is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: carb cycle
Stats: 113/109/? Female 61 inches
BF:/~15%/11%
Progress: 38%
Default

I am totally appreciative of any help, suggestions or support. I am not an expert, I am new to this. I followed the plan given to me precisely. If you would like to ridicule me and/or tell me that I'm a moron for doing this wrong, can we please do that another time?
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Oct-08-04, 09:53
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

No, no, no - not meaning to belittle you. I'm just a little shocked. Sorry. I'm just surprised that Kristi (or any personal trainer, for that matter) would tell a client to lift weights empty. I'm also surprised that she would have someone do CKD with so little weightlifting and so much cardio. It sounds odd, to say the least.

Amyella, do you like lifting in the AM, or could you lift at some other time of the day?
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Oct-08-04, 10:01
amyella's Avatar
amyella amyella is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: carb cycle
Stats: 113/109/? Female 61 inches
BF:/~15%/11%
Progress: 38%
Default

Sorry to be defensive

I hate mornings. I struggle to get up and do even my cardio on an empty stomach. I prefer lifting at "lunch time" (i.e. during my lunch break -- I can usually sneak away for an hour and a half during the work day and just eat at my desk) or after work.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Oct-08-04, 10:11
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Okay, good.

Could you please start a gym log and write out, IN DETAIL, what you're doing, what and when you're eating, what and how much you're lifting, and when you do your cardio? We need to see what's NOT working so we can figure out what WILL.

Okay?

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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Oct-08-04, 10:45
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Have you brought these issues to your 'trainer'? What have her suggestions been?
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 08:31
chipvideo chipvideo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 38
 
Plan: anpb diet
Stats: 228/221/215 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 54%
Default

First off there is absolutely nothing wrong with lifting on an empty stomache. I do it and I grow like a weed. I do it 1 hour after waking in the morning after drinking 1/2 pot coffee.

She is not doing to much cardio. This is my shedule for a keto diet.

Sun-Upper body workout. 30 min cardio after.
Mon-Lower body workout. 30 min cardio after.
Tues-thur cardio 1 hour after waking up for 45 min.
Friday-whole body depletion workout followed by 36 hour carbup.

I actually put on muscle mass durring this diet. I am in ketosis by tues morning. I am very knowlegable about putting on muscle mass. This is also the best way for me to lose fat.

I would also point out that eating fruit is a big NO NO when carbing up. YOu will most likely store it as fat. Fructose is used by liver and then when it is full it will store as fat. The carbup is just as important as the diet itself. I would stay away from any junk. I know this as I have done keto diets for over 9 years now.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 08:45
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo
First off there is absolutely nothing wrong with lifting on an empty stomache. I do it and I grow like a weed.

I actually put on muscle mass durring this diet. I am in ketosis by tues morning. I am very knowlegable about putting on muscle mass. This is also the best way for me to lose fat.


Would you like to debate the science of training on an empty stomach verus not doing so? Not your conjecture, but the science/physiology of it.

And if you grow like a weed (on a diet of all things) and have been doing this for 9 years, you must be a monster by now. I'd like to see the fruits of your labour.

Last edited by -thunder- : Tue, Oct-12-04 at 09:25.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 10:48
chipvideo chipvideo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 38
 
Plan: anpb diet
Stats: 228/221/215 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 54%
Default

Unfortuanately I took a 13 month layoff from the gym so I have a ways to go. I never train more than 7 months a year. In fact over the last 5 years I have spent a total of 15 months in the gym. I will post a picture in about another 3 months. By then I should be around 240lbs at 15%.

Lifting on a empty stomache is not as bad as you think. Remember I am still getting 6 meals in per day after I train. For fat loss I believe on a empty stomache is the best. So do many elite gurus. I just know it works for me. Now when I start bulking I still do it on a empty stomache. The reason why I do this is to get the most insulin rush as possible. If you hit your body on a empty stomache you deplete your glycogen stores more than if ate a meal. The net result will be more of an insulin rush to shuttle the protein into the muscle. On lifting days when do a maintenence I am taking in 400 grams carbs per day. 100 grams per meal for first 3 meals and then 50 a meal over the next 2 and then none for the last. And on non lifting days I eat about 150 grams carbs. Doing this increases your insulin resistence and allows for a much higher anabolic effect. Timing is critical as is what you eat.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Oct-12-04, 10:54
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo
Unfortuanately I took a 13 month layoff from the gym so I have a ways to go. I never train more than 7 months a year. In fact over the last 5 years I have spent a total of 15 months in the gym. I will post a picture in about another 3 months. By then I should be around 240lbs at 15%.

Lifting on a empty stomache is not as bad as you think. Remember I am still getting 6 meals in per day after I train. For fat loss I believe on a empty stomache is the best. So do many elite gurus. I just know it works for me. Now when I start bulking I still do it on a empty stomache. The reason why I do this is to get the most insulin rush as possible. If you hit your body on a empty stomache you deplete your glycogen stores more than if ate a meal. The net result will be more of an insulin rush to shuttle the protein into the muscle. On lifting days when do a maintenence I am taking in 400 grams carbs per day. 100 grams per meal for first 3 meals and then 50 a meal over the next 2 and then none for the last. And on non lifting days I eat about 150 grams carbs. Doing this increases your insulin resistence and allows for a much higher anabolic effect. Timing is critical as is what you eat.


1. Name the 'many' elite gurus (and DiPasquale doesn't count, since one, he has a vested interest, and two, no one considers him a guru anymore)

2. From a physiology standpoint, tell me how weight training on an empty stomach is superior.

3. Your comments on 'insulin rush' and insulin resistance are incorrect. How does decreasing carb intake on off days increase insulin resistance, and why does increased insulin resistance result in greater anabolic activity?
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