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  #331   ^
Old Fri, Jun-28-19, 05:30
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 13,740
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I live on heavy cream and coffee. And I seriously doubt dairy plus coffee is a special mix that hits the liver particularly hard. I do like eggs in coffee when I run out of cream sometimes, though.
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  #332   ^
Old Fri, Jun-28-19, 05:49
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
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Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I live on heavy cream and coffee. And I seriously doubt dairy plus coffee is a special mix that hits the liver particularly hard. I do like eggs in coffee when I run out of cream sometimes, though.


Yep, I have 2-3 cups of coffee a day and use HWC in them (first two cups I put 2tbsp and then any cups after that I do 1tbsp). I don't have any digestion/health issues so it's all good
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  #333   ^
Old Fri, Jun-28-19, 06:35
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,905
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I live on heavy cream and coffee. And I seriously doubt dairy plus coffee is a special mix that hits the liver particularly hard. I do like eggs in coffee when I run out of cream sometimes, though.


Can't do eggs

I likewise consume several cups, sometimes half-caff, with heavy cream and half and half when that's all I can find. And at this point, it seems to do me good.

I use coconut oil, cocoa, and collagen as additives.
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  #334   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 04:03
Canari Canari is offline
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Posts: 17
 
Plan: Carnivore 95%
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 165cm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I live on heavy cream and coffee. And I seriously doubt dairy plus coffee is a special mix that hits the liver particularly hard. I do like eggs in coffee when I run out of cream sometimes, though.

Milk especially and not dairy.
Please do not apply your personal case to others.
You are part of the 10% if it really does nothing to you.
And pure milk is worse than cream!
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  #335   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 04:09
Canari Canari is offline
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Plan: Carnivore 95%
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 165cm
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I know somebody who got aware of coffee + milk after only years, and only because he was having coffee + milk 10 months per year, and tea + milk all summer in England. He got the "liver effect" only in september, and then it would start to go away, so he thought it was the journey back + back to work.
The year he stayed with tea when coming back, he had no headaches. So he tried coffee again and got the headches….

And this is just one case. The worse I knew had symptoms as strong as seeming to have an hepatitis.

But if you prefer to not know how strong are our bodies and how good they are at coping! Not even blood test about liver enzymes are enough to detect all the weight that our liver stands!

Do an OAT - Organic Acids Test one day, and you might be surprised of what you Will learn about yourself!
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  #336   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 08:22
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,107
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Another here who cherishes coffee with HWC, it's always my first meal of the day no matter when I pour it. Eggs? I usually consume them without liquid . . . .

Regarding meat, as we finish up with the month of June, this is the time of year I vary meal content to take advantage of the fresh stuff and continue using meat and fish as a baseline until the growing season is over in the fall. It works for me, as we all have different dietary sweet spots that work well and are there for our discovery.
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  #337   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 08:38
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 13,740
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm part of the ten percent if it really does nothing to me? Please do something to back up your numbers. I'm not extrapolating from my N=1--I said, I live on cream and coffee, and then that I doubt this dairy/coffee/liver thing is a general thing. I didn't say that one conclusion came from the other, although I can see how you could think I was implying it.

I certainly don't think it's a 90 percent of people thing without some hard data. What you're saying about the headaches--yes, it's true that a lot of people get headaches from caffeine withdrawal with coffee, or misdosing, I've experienced this myself. Doesn't seem to happen for me individually, any more, since I went keto. Just an anecdote, I know.
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  #338   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 09:03
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
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Plan: LCHF
Stats: 206.6/180/160 Female 5'7
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Progress: 57%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
yes, it's true that a lot of people get headaches from caffeine withdrawal with coffee, or misdosing, I've experienced this myself. Doesn't seem to happen for me individually, any more, since I went keto. Just an anecdote, I know.

now, this is interesting to me, in that I have gone days without coffee for no reason and never experience headaches or withdrawal..
figured the coffee wasn't totally real... figured they added something without our knowledge.. but it could very well be the KETO lifestyle that discontinues the agony of withdrawal..

how very interesting..
thanks for posting this.
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  #339   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 11:06
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,107
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Headaches due to coffee (caffeine) elimination while doing keto are real for me. They last for a day or two and then go away. I drink about 1 sometimes 2 cups a day, and within 24-36 hours after no coffee, I'll experience a dull headache. They are not intense and are easily managed, and when I first experienced them, I thought it was due to the onset of dehydration. I do not experience this with tea, but I make my coffee strong, so that may be a factor. They have nothing to do with dairy (HWC, I don't use milk) as this will happen if I'm drinking coffee black.
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  #340   ^
Old Sat, Jun-29-19, 12:20
Canari Canari is offline
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Plan: Carnivore 95%
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 165cm
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Of course I cannot tell a % ! Just interprete that there are more people who Will not stand the mix than people who NEED to mix - and again with milk, I dont know for cream - and it is not about cafein and what happens with coffee alone. It is about the MIX.

I got the informations from a MD, who was very good and who was drinking coffee only with milk, though she was warning most people to not mix. So I asked her….


So about the %, the exact thing she told me was that 10 % - more or less of course - of the population MUST take coffee with milk, and not black!


But actually she did not tell me how many people can do both and how many are affected by the mix of the 2 (even if they can stand both separately).


I remember a friend who told me that as a child, if he really did not want to go to school, he would drink coffee with milk, which made him super sick to the point they thought he was starting an hepatitis!

As many people told me they could not stand the MIX, I thought it was more well-known.

I do not do good with lactose, but I have noticed that it is better to have FAT in coffee. I can use any of those alone or mixed: egg yolk, cacao or coco fat, ground nuts like hemp seeds. I have even used animal saturated fat!


So I eat carnivore + coffee and all fatty plant stuffs with no majority of omega 6. Even 100% chocolate... + garlic and onion. Also ginger, turmeric.


My main point of avoidance in plants for now are carbs, gluten and carotens.
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  #341   ^
Old Sun, Jun-30-19, 05:45
Canari Canari is offline
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Plan: Carnivore 95%
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 165cm
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Progress:
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lol also I just realized a paradox… zero carbs is not low in carbs! Low carb is low carb if high fat… high protein is the reality of zero carbs, and it provides carbs by gluco-neo-genesis!


In a way it is like ruminants' diet: they are low in fats aren't they?

No. Not in their fuel burning: they burn fats, produced by bacterias in their guts.


So it is not about what we eat, but what we burn as a fuel.


Also gorillas and most apes are running on the fats they they produce in their LONG colon, much longer than ours, and this is the lie of the vegan who say we should eat like them. We just cannot. I have found that the maximum SCFA our colon can provide us give 500Kcal a day. And according to our microbiome, can we all do it?


In that case we need to eat high in fats, to get from direct food what our guts cannot produce.


But some people need some carbs, and at the same time cannot eat them, for gut and microbiome reasons. In that case, I find that replacing carbs by animal proteins is a good idea.
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  #342   ^
Old Sun, Jun-30-19, 11:23
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,740
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canari
Of course I cannot tell a % ! Just interprete that there are more people who Will not stand the mix than people who NEED to mix - and again with milk, I dont know for cream - and it is not about cafein and what happens with coffee alone. It is about the MIX.

I got the informations from a MD, who was very good and who was drinking coffee only with milk, though she was warning most people to not mix. So I asked her….


So about the %, the exact thing she told me was that 10 % - more or less of course - of the population MUST take coffee with milk, and not black!


But actually she did not tell me how many people can do both and how many are affected by the mix of the 2 (even if they can stand both separately).


I remember a friend who told me that as a child, if he really did not want to go to school, he would drink coffee with milk, which made him super sick to the point they thought he was starting an hepatitis!

As many people told me they could not stand the MIX, I thought it was more well-known.

I do not do good with lactose, but I have noticed that it is better to have FAT in coffee. I can use any of those alone or mixed: egg yolk, cacao or coco fat, ground nuts like hemp seeds. I have even used animal saturated fat!


So I eat carnivore + coffee and all fatty plant stuffs with no majority of omega 6. Even 100% chocolate... + garlic and onion. Also ginger, turmeric.


My main point of avoidance in plants for now are carbs, gluten and carotens.


I don't have any problem with the idea that a fair number of people have trouble with milk, and certainly avoiding coffee is a good idea for some people. But I don't think the doctor you talked to is right about mixing milk and coffee. The same burden of proof that would be on you to justify the claim just goes to the doctor now--appeal to authority just doesn't work.

I really don't want to be argumentative. But I've seen other unjustified claims--low carb bad for kidneys, bad for bones, causes hypothyroid, leaves people with a glycoprotein deficiency that leads to digestive tract cancers--getting people worried about the wrong things, unsubstantiated claims can really throw people off to the point where they just don't know where to safely turn. I can find any number of doctors who'll say meat kills, with no justification--so a doctor saying something just isn't justification.
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  #343   ^
Old Sun, Jun-30-19, 21:24
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,002
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I make a meal out of liver, onions, mushrooms and bacon, layered, cooked in a crock pot. Really tasty and full of nutrients.
What is the texture like with liver cooked in a crockpot?
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  #344   ^
Old Sun, Jun-30-19, 21:52
FREE2BEME's Avatar
FREE2BEME FREE2BEME is offline
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Posts: 2,804
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 260/191/145 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't have any problem with the idea that a fair number of people have trouble with milk, and certainly avoiding coffee is a good idea for some people. But I don't think the doctor you talked to is right about mixing milk and coffee. The same burden of proof that would be on you to justify the claim just goes to the doctor now--appeal to authority just doesn't work.

I really don't want to be argumentative. But I've seen other unjustified claims--low carb bad for kidneys, bad for bones, causes hypothyroid, leaves people with a glycoprotein deficiency that leads to digestive tract cancers--getting people worried about the wrong things, unsubstantiated claims can really throw people off to the point where they just don't know where to safely turn. I can find any number of doctors who'll say meat kills, with no justification--so a doctor saying something just isn't justification.

Don’t have anything Of importance to add to this discussion other than I wholeheartedly agree with this. And now living in Japan makes this even more obvious to me. There are plenty of doctors here who will tell you the exact opposite of what is considered general consensus amongst American doctors. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? I guess the burden of proof lies with the person or group or entity who happens to be making the claim. 🤷‍♀️
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  #345   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-19, 03:53
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotGal
now, this is interesting to me, in that I have gone days without coffee for no reason and never experience headaches or withdrawal..
figured the coffee wasn't totally real... figured they added something without our knowledge.. but it could very well be the KETO lifestyle that discontinues the agony of withdrawal..

how very interesting..
thanks for posting this.


I've also had this experience-my caffeine intake used to be quite a bit higher (4+ cans of diet coke plus 3 cups of coffee every day). If I missed one of my regular doses I'd get horrible headaches, but since going HFLC I've completely cut out the diet soda and drink anywhere from 1-3 cups of coffee a day, without any headaches at all. Coffee/caffeine has become something I drink because I enjoy (especially in the morning instead of eating), but I don't rely on it anymore and I don't notice any physical changes if I don't have it.
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