I have scoured the thread (meat & egg fast) looking for the rules. Some people say you can have seasonings, mayo, oil etc., others say you can't. Same with coffee, tea, soda, splenda, cream and cheese. Is this diet actually just eliminating any salads and veggies? Is there someplace online I can go to find this diet written out? Thanking you for your help.

Check this thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=242675

The third post down gives an overview of what it is all about.

I got this from another forum .


The basics of the Experiment and Kimmer’s Experience


The purpose of the "experiment" is to show how 'real' ketosis feels ... no appetite, excellent weight loss. That the carbs are very, very low or 0 is key. This is what Dr. A was talking about in Induction! When we severely restrict carbs, our bodies (who DON'T want to use body fat for energy!), will go to the glycogen in our livers. When that's used up (3 days roughly), it's like a flood gate is opened and our bodies give up a lot of extra water ... that's the 3-7 pounds people lose in the first few days.

Actually I did Stillman's for 3 days to get into ketosis ASAP (I am deathly afraid of being hungry!) The difference between this "experiment" and Stillman's is picking any protein you like ... Stillman's is "lean" only. Then I moved onto Atkins Induction and stayed for 6 months (<20 carbs, no 'treats') and with zero appetitite, I was fine eating relatively few calories.

However, if I were going to do it today, I would have stayed on Stillman's the whole time ... easier, less cooking/shopping, faster. The quantities of veggies I was eating wasn't enough to seriously contribute nutritionally ... IMO, of course. The downside for many would be boredom, but I'm not bored at all losing 4-7 pounds a week!

Kimkins is what someone termed how I lost my weight ... my version of Atkins:
· <20 carbs (no fiber subtraction)
· 70-90 gm protein,
· just enough fat to make your menus work
absolutely no LC treats!

Some people have never experienced what I term 'real' ketosis with the strong appetite suppression (OK, nausea) and very rapid weight loss. This is a chance to see what it's like.

Warning - not everyone likes the feeling, even if you're losing faster than scientifically possible (per the 3500 calorie deficit = equals 1 pound theory).

I lost 160 pounds in 7 months, then took 3 months to do the last 20. Over the past 3 years I've lost a few more to equal 200 lbs total.

The idea of the 3 day experiment is to show what 'real' ketosis feels like. Keep in mind that if someone is carbed-up (especially if they do it on purpose), they may need 5 days to get rid of the excess glycogen in their liver.

After you're in ketosis, GRADUALLY slip into the LC program of your choice. Naturally, the fewer carbs the better the loss. Lower calorie choices will provide faster loss than higher calories.

BUT ... you want to make it livable for your lifetime. Any of us can fall back on pure protein to make up for a lax weekend. You're harming your body when you assault it with sugar (carbs) ... which, chances are, aren't coming from nutritious, high antioxidant sources ... more like good 'ol comfort food.



for the 3-5 days, skip the extra fats (cheeses). When you begin switching to a LC plan, watch the cheese as the calories really add up q
Yeah, dairy sounds innocent but the choices on LC are essentially fats with double the calories of protein or carbs. I love cheese, sour cream, cream cheese, heavy cream and butter as much as the next person, but at 100 calories per miniscule serving ...

Keep in mind that calories count, not just carbs. It's possible to eat only 17 carbs if you ate 3 cups of mayonnaise (ewwww!) But check out that 5000 calorie count!

And that wouldn't even include the protein you'd eat throughout the day (not that you'd want to eat anything after downing a glass of mayo, LOL!) uick!
Eat as much as you like, drink as much as you like and absolutely use protein as a snack! I like steak chunks, tuna salad or fresh hard boiled eggs (don't like 'em cold ...) They have .6 per large egg. Eggs are actually two thirds fat!

During my weight loss phase I counted every carb ... eggs, coffee, tea, diet soda, cheese ... all the "little" ones because they sure add up fast!

For purposes of this experiment, skip the .6 carb count.

What to Expect

People who are on Day 3 and haven't lost, you may be the few that need to go 5 days to deplete your glycogen (think back to what you ate before you started the 3 Day). The weight loss will come, and impressively.

Other 'slow' losers, wait one more day, when you see the big WHOOSH (like others have posted), then you know the glycogen is gone. And we should keep in mind digestive issues ...

Ahhhh, that's the thing! If you were at 20-30 carbs, then give it 1-2 more days. When you see the 2 lb WHOOSH, you're on your way! Interesting trivia is that on this BB, the largest percentage of people who 'stall' after Induction are at 25-30 carbs. You will lose even more if you're exercising (you'll also achieve ketosis faster because your body is yanking the glycogen out of your liver!) It's a good thing!

Using the Experiment as a benchmark

Reminder ... weigh yourself on Day 2. If you've lost more than 3-5 pounds, you were over on carbs before. Keep in mind that if you lost 3+ pounds in the 3 days, you were over on carbs before ... something to keep in mind when picking carb choices!

Note to the 'hungry' folks. This is a sure sign that you were over on carbs before. Everyone keep in mind that your body DOES NOT want to convert to body fat for fuel! Your body always wants to take the easy route, which is sugar (carbs). This is why when people first do Induction (or this 3 day thing), they feel tired, cranky, have cravings ... their brain is sending a HARD message that it wants fuel, NOW. Those who stick with Induction without caving in are rewarded with ketosis, weight loss and reduced appetite ... their bodies have SUCCESSFULLY converted to burning body fat! Now, those folks who 'relax' on weekends send their bodies back to Square 1 and cravings. These are also the people who 'feel better' after eating carbs and mistakenly think their bodies 'need them'. Wrong. Their bodies wanted sugar and they obliged ... vicious cycle.

That you're still hungry on Day 3 would tell me that you were "over" on carbs before you started and your body is still processing them. Your glycogen isn't depleted yet. Wait 2 more days, check your loss and wait for the appetite suppression.

How much to eat

Don't eat until you get hungry (mildly hungry, don't wait until you're starving!) Don't count calories, don't cut back on quantities ... EAT if you're hungry

I got 2 PMs from people who are "hungry". EAT!!! Snack on more HB eggs, make an omelette, fry up a steak, throw some chickie pieces on your Foreman grill ... eat! The appetite suppression is coming, honest!

Don't cave in with a "taste" of carbs. You'll be back at square 1. Again.

Don't worry about the protein/glucose conversion. Want proof? Look at how much you'll lose in 3 days. . if you're hungry, eat! Just avoid ANY and all CARBS!

no cheese! Protein only!

Liquids

Drink what your body tells you. I find that I'm more thirsty in ketosis (and I've noticed others posting the same on this BB).

Don't force liquids, drink what you need. If you're keeping with ONLY protein & NO carbs, yes, drink diet soda until your eyes fall out of their sockets.

Foods to eat and foods to avoid

Eat eggs until they ban you from the store, LOL! Eggs are an incredible, edible food! Your "pizza" is perfectly fine. Watch for an appetite change when you wake up tomorrow ... remember, no carbs! If you can, skip the mustard and soy sauce for now. If you can't, use the least amount possible. I'd avoid the pork rinds, they're very high calories and you can snack away more than you intended, LOL!

Don't worry about the carbs in the eggs ... those are the 'innocent' ones that come naturally with protein.

Yes, use the fat you normally use for cooking. I wouldn't suggest "extra" fats as in whipped cream or cream cheese because they tend to end up as high calorie desserts ... appetite or not!

Ketosis and the Sticks

Hey, don't rely on the sticks to tell you if you're in ketosis (stick addicts won't be able to help themselves, LOL!)

Check your scales! If you've lost weight (and I'm thinking 4-5 pounds or more ... yes, water weight, but who cares!) ... you're in ketosis!

Bathroom issues

don't like the side effects of laxatives (cramping, working "too well" if you know what I mean, LOL) and I've found that milk thistle has an excellent laxative effect ... perfect, actually.

I take milk thistle as a spectacular liver protector! In European hospitals, the ERs administer milk thistle for those who have eaten poisonous mushrooms (apparently it's a fairly common situation). I would imagine they use huge doses, but the point is that the people don't die. Milk thistle actually helps repair liver tissue! I buy a big 180 capsule bottle at Wal Mart for $14 and I take 4 a day (2 & 2). Do a web search for info (and no toxicity!)

What to do after the Experiment

After the 3 days, you can either stay on protein ... or transition to Atkins Induction (or whatever program you're following).

You need to keep your carbs very low after the 3 days or you'll get out of ketosis!

From a health standpoint, you would be OK as long as you take supplements to compensate for the veggies/fruits you aren't eating ... ditto on straight Atkins or Stillman's.

You want to begin adding veggies when you're within 20 pounds of goal so you can practice making food choices and not be overwhelmed

After the 3 days you can decide what you want to do:

1) Continue on protein & naturally occurring fats until close to goal

2) Begin adding SMALL servings of very low carb veggies

3) Go to Atkins Induction (but depending on your definition of "Induction", this can backfire!)

Yes, more than 3 days is fine. Be sure to take a Centrum type vitamin each day.

Absolutely introduce your carbs slowly when you begin. Try a SMALL salad at lunch, another at dinner type of thing. Slowly work your way up to however fast/slow you want to lose

If you keep your carbs VERY VERY low, you'll stay in this state of "no hunger" and rapid weight loss ... if that's what you want (not everyone does!)

Going to LC treats will almost guarantee your quick departure from Ketosis Central ... something to consider.

Nothing about the "experiment" can backfire. What you're doing is keeping carbs very, very low (or non existent). For people who have a difficult time losing, Dr. Atkins advised reducing carbs to 15 or 10 ... "or for especially difficult cases, 0 carbs".

What a wonderfully insightful post!! I found it to answer a lot of my questions. Thanks.[/

xisnow, it's hard to find 'rules' because it's an experiment that someone came up with on their own and tried; it's not part of any published plan out there. Because of that, it's only natural that nearly everyone has their own set of rules for doing something like this.
IMO, I don't recommend doing this if you are not honestly and truly stalled meaning no loss of pounds OR inches for a period of 4-6 weeks and you have ruled out all other possible reasons for slow/no weight loss first. See this thread for more information on that.
Reading through the post above, it occurs to me that what they are suggesting is a "KISS" (keep it simple, sweetie) version of Atkins...whole foods, watch portion sizes and skip the low carb sweets and treats and I think you'd be far better off going that route rather than resorting to something this extreme first.

I wouldn't consider it "extreme". This fast is more for people who end up with the "carb creep" where the carbs slip in and end up here and there and it's truly more than people realize, OR for those who find that their loss has slowed down because yes, they are eating fewer carbs, but they are adding tons of calories in conidments and other calorie-laden additives.

Partially why Atkins and low carb diets work- it's STILL calorie counting that we are doing, but we help it along by choosing foods that DON'T make us hungry, which triggers overeating. Atkins said that when we eat this way, calories are naturally lower. It's a natural way to lower our calorie count.

That being said, I know a lot of people will start to talk about how calories aren't created equal, but this is mostly my experience. Atkins works because we eat less calories. Plain and simple. The egg and meat fast works because it truly gets people back to the basics. Without all the added crap that we justify adding to our diets because it's "low-carb".

It would seem to me, then, that a better solution would be to fix the problem. Cut back on the carbs if you've been eating too many or watch your calories a little closer. A meat and egg fast isn't necessary to correct either of those issues unless, of course, a person feels some inner need to punish themselves for straying.



I have to disagree, Wynn; the 'basics' are meat, eggs, cheese, healthy fats and plenty of dark green, leafy veggies, not cutting everything out of your menus except for meat and eggs.

very very informative post Lisa N, thanks!!

sounds like a good way to break a plateau into pieces.

IMO, if you really need to get back to basics, the best solution is still KIS if you're stuck. You can even skip the fruit veggies (tomatoes, peppers, etc) if you're that afraid of the carbs. I refuse to believe that eating lettuce along with your meat n' eggs is going to stall someone.