Just to add to the discussion below about OMAD...

On the youtube interview from yesterday on Body by Bisson channel, he was asked about eating all your protein in one sitting.

He said that is not optimal. What happens if you eat a massive amount of protein, you get an "ileum brake" - everything slows down in your intestines. You're only able to extract protein at a certain fixed rate, at a crawl basically. He said it does work, you could do it, many things are possible, but few things are optimal.

Esp if you're trying to build muscle or recomposition (meaning losing fat/gaining muscle) - you want aminos available. He says is important to get protein in the first and last meal of the day.

Intermittent fasting is on a U-shaped curve. So, eating one meal is not optimal. He feels that optimal would be more like a 16/8 (but seems to say this is opinion) to get used to not eating for a certain portion of the day and get fat adapted.

The interviewer asked him something about what part of the day is best for the feeding window (I fast fwd while interviewers yak, LOL). Dr. Naiman said that there have been studies but they don't differentiate between insulin sensitivity at the fat cell level vs. insulin sensitivity at the muscle cell. So, when you hear that it is better to eat earlier in the day, they are referring to insulin sensitivity of the fat cell. But, if you work out later in the day, you might be better off moving the eating window to eating later in the day because you become more insulin sensitive at the muscle cell level due to the work out when you've depleted your glycogen. So, when to place your eating window - it depends on what works best for you.

We watched the same interviews yesterday…I jump on anything new with Ted With regard to finding the best times for fasting for any individual, that is one goal of Data Driven Fasting…your workouts would end up being reflected in your daily BG patterns. Exercise, stress, etc. all end up in the Fuel Gauge seen with a BG reading.

If only interested in weight loss in the beginning and dont want to take readings, Marty Kendall has the data on total calories consumed for various number of meals. People eating TWO times a day eat less than OMAD (who tend to choose high calorie, less nutrient dense foods when they do eat and are overly hungry) and Early TMAD eats less than those eating lunch+dinner. What is perfectly clear is that eating "six small meals" a day to "stoke your metabolism" was a complete fail!

Marty Kendall's DDF manual is still free on the new private network, now 186 pages long! Every answer about BG swings, management and fasting possible. Join free here if interested: https://members.optimisingnutrition...3A0K_0b4-fRtnlS

You do not have to do a DDF challenge or take BG readings if you don't want the technical side of it. You can read the manual and articles on the blog for the take aways from the ON analysis of thousands of users.

Chart from section on timing:

Thank you for your posts….including this amazing updated summary of your weight loss journey. It is one thing to say you have lost half the weight you had been carrying for a long while, but even more stunning to also know you lost 160 pounds and Keep It Off without a struggle.
What you eat determines how much you eat, maintenance in one meme.

I see your posts on Ted Naiman's Twitter feed…have you written about your success with PE vs LCHF before? More people need to read this…thinking of the food addiction audience that may find his Twitter feed for the first time after yesterday’s two podcasts. And DietDoctor has been doing long term updates of older success stories recently. Yours would fit into his move to higher protein perfectly. I would love to read the whole journey either here, DD or Dr. Naiman's Twitter feed.
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Thanks! I have written it up twice when people contacted me from Twitter. The Diet Doctor story is a bit corney. Another writer asked for my story more recently. I hope that one survives editing because it was better (she didn’t try to steer so much).

I’ll update Diet Doctor and ask them to fix it. Honestly, they stuck “keto” right in my picture for starters, which is super annoying because I absolutely don’t do keto!

I can’t even find it anymore. It was on the over 50 page at the top for a while. I flipped through and don’t see it now.

I’d like to lose more, so I’ll try updating it soon once I do that. I also want to take another “after” picture with the same purse for scale

What is a "massive" amount of protein? What is the maximum amount that is considered optimal at one meal?

Hi JLx,

The discussion is right at the beginning of this short video:
https://youtu.be/G63yyDh8uQY

The basic guideline for the P:E diet is 1g protein per pound of ideal body weight. At 5’9, that's 145g for me which I have in 2 meals, plus a yogurt+protein powder snack. Dr Naiman considers this a minimum of protein, think he has said he's higher at 1.5g ? ( that would be 240 G protein ). body builders would eat more like 2g per pound, and the theoretical "too much" was 3g.

But even body builders don’t just eat animal protein, meals are balanced with carrots, apples, oatmeal, etc. Higher carb but low fat. Maximum protein at one meal depends on goals..some of the guys who workout in our group seem OK with crazy high percentages, but Marty Kendall's data shows even when doing a challenge, 40% protein is high, and pushing it to 50% or higher is not sustainable for long. The goal of a Macro class is to find what works for you. https://optimisingnutrition.com/how...-your-appetite/

Even though I eat a lot of fish and chicken to up protein and lower fat, I also keep an eye on optimal nutrition, getting Omega 3s with seafood, range of micronutrients with more veggies, fruit and dairy. So Nutrient Density without supplements, but including things like a gelatin "protein flan" I make in chocolate. 100 x better than SF jello. More food ideas in the comments in my success story. https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...lan/#more-16451


EDIT ADD: As so often happens, I answer, then read an article or hear a podcast later, with MORE answers. This morning the latest episode of the new Optimal Protein Podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...i=1000549199396
Vannesa Spina answers:

Minute 19..Is there such a thing as "too much protein"? Maybe over 200g protein if you are not training? But it will not stall weight loss.

Minute 32..Can there be too much protein in one meal? Up to 200 grams protein for a 70 kg person safe per Dr. Angela Stanton. [ Me trying to imagine 200g of protein in one meal ]

Minute 49...Why Keto weight loss stalls after a while...and why Higher Protein works to restart weight loss and reach ideal weight.

PS: Her new Podcast, Optimal Protein, is good, in addition to the Protein Series she did last year on her Podcast, Formerly Known as Fast Keto

Surprise…is it this update that ran in DietDoctor in September that you don't like? I only remember the title with Higher Protein the "on keto" plastered across your photo didn’t register with me.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/higher-p...ike-gangbusters

In fact, it was your story I was thinking of when I wrote with DD's new emphasis on Protein, they would like your update. This was all around the time I wrote a one year story for Marty and Finally! Placed a Success Story here. i considered DD as well…mainly to support the move to higher protein.

I look forward to seeing it more …whenever, wherever.
It would be easy to add your long term Success Story here with a copy/ paste and link

KT - just reread your story from DD. I remember reading it before. I think very highly of Dr. Naiman, and it was fortuitous for you to have him as your physician and advice partner as you changed your lifestyle. Like Janet, I really didn't notice the keto labels from DD; rather, your story was clear, well-written, and inspiring considering your determination to make it work. As stated in my previous post, I was inspired to increase my protein after a presentation from Ben Bikman and reading Naiman's P:E Diet book. It's so ironic about "keto" folks being concerned with over eating protein (worrying about gluconeogenesis raising BG and shutting down ketosis). Bikman's research found that when one is starting from a low carb foundation, protein is the most nutrient dense, healthy and satiating food you can consume and if it raises blood glucose, it's very slight and temporary. Thanks for sharing your success and your approach to change your lifestyle. Very helpful.

Janet - thanks. It doesn't sound as if I need to worry about it as I too, can't imagine 200 mg in one meal! Or even in one day, but I'm going to work on it some more with egg whites, Greek yogurt, etc.

Rob - thank you!!

I love Ben Bikman - well of course I do! I love digging into YouTube once in a while and watching his videos.

How are you doing adding protein? Yesterday I was pushing my trigger a bit lower, and didn’t eat lunch until 12:30. I cut off a large piece of turkey..it weighed 7.5 ounces! My first thought was I can’t eat that much, my second was .. why not? But again, I then didn’t feel up to more meat for dinner, and had both protein yogurt and flan. Exactly my goal of 145 g for the day, under 1200 calories. The satiety from protein is key.

Following all of the advice in this thread I've been adding more protein too and one of the easiest ways is with liquid eggwhites in milk-carton type containers. They are often on sale and freeze well so I never buy them at full price so they end up cheaper than whole eggs. I still use whole eggs, but add whites to get the protein level I want.

A big chunk of meat/poultry at one sitting may look intimidating, but because I eat in an 8-hr window, I can measure out the day's portion and eat it in 2-3 parts within my window.

That's a great idea, glad higher protein and more satiety per calorie is working well for you.
There is a journalist and cancer survivor who has lost 80 pounds, I have seen on Twitter. He recently interviewed Dr Naiman again and covered a bit more about his new book, Satiety per Calorie
A short article. https://www.simplysnackin.com/blog/...e-nanoworkouts/

KeyTones posted the first half of Dr. Naiman's interview with "Body By Bisson" and today I stumbled upon the second part. Mostly about Maintaining, but they covered "Cheat Meals" How they might work for a huge guy like The Rock Johnson after 3 days of glucogon depletion, but why it does not work for most mere mortals like us. Well, I did cheat days at Christmas, but I also gained weight.

Also new, a Food Junkies podcast hosted by food addiction specialists. I thought this is not a fit, but after a long intro from the hosts about their own hesitations, I found it interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0J7-v_rV-8

The food junkies interview of Dr. Naiman is a really great one I listened to back in January. The reason I like it so much is it reminds me of what he said to me in my first appointment with him back in 2007 - that it is not your fault.

He has revised his message now to say we are all hard-wired to overeat refined carbs and fat - this is not your fault and instead to focus on the food he goes over in the podcast (and of course his book and in his many posts).