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  #316   ^
Old Sun, Sep-18-22, 06:23
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Doing My Best
Posts: 4,914
 
Plan: LC/CancerRecovery
Stats: 170/135/130 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 88%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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Thanks. I've changed lots of things since my last post here. Managing to stay LC, but I'm getting my fat from my meat and egg sources, plus powdered MCT oil in my morning coffee. My blood ketones don't go nearly as high as before I started cancer treatments, but, like everything else, healing takes time. I'll find my new normal. I'm not losing weight, but holding steady, and my pre-dawn walk is up to two miles a day. I haven't had a Kanjinti infusion since the beginning of August and I stopped my daily Letrozole pill. I see my new oncologist mid-October and my experiment until then is to take a multivitamin plus high dosage vitamin d+k2 and stay LC. The week before I see the doctor I'll have a blood draw so I can see the results of my experiment and decide what I want to tell the doctor about what treatment I want going forward.
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  #317   ^
Old Sun, Sep-18-22, 06:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,825
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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That sounds like you're in a better place and have a idea about your direction. Getting feedback is so crucial at such times.
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  #318   ^
Old Tue, Nov-08-22, 13:24
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 12,301
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Another great interview with Dr Ted Naiman on DietDoctor:

Satiety: The Path to Healthy Weight Loss

https://www.dietdoctor.com/video/po...thy-weight-loss

Quote:
If you are chronically hungry, chances are you won’t succeed with long-term weight loss. But what’s the opposite of hunger? According to Dr. Ted Naiman, that satisfied state is called “satiety.” And by focusing on higher-satiety eating, Ted has helped thousands of patients improve their health and lose weight.

In this interview, Ted explains what you need to know about satiety and how you can get started with higher-satiety eating. We also discuss the role of exercise in relation to satiety and weight loss. And don’t worry, we tackle all sorts of diets — from no carb to no fat — and see how they fit with higher-satiety eating.

Whatever your food preferences, you can progress toward healthy weight loss with a higher-satiety approach.



For very low carbers who eat high fat, the difference among short-term satiation from a meal, satiety per calorie, and longer term satiety is important. LC favorites bacon, cheese and nuts all fail on the satiety per calorie graph, Dr Naiman gives small tweaks for weight loss progress.

Table of contents

00:00 Introduction
01:45 About satiety and nutrient dilutions
03:11 Differences between satiety and satiety per calorie (SPC)
10:31 Balancing the concept of high and poor SPC
18:51 About Dr. Naiman’s diagrams
26:07 The nuance of diets with zero carb and fiber
32:17 Satiety case study: the Okinawa diet
36:45 The relationship between exercise and satiety
37:38 Strategies to help patients prioritize healthy eating
46:57 Eating the satiety way and avoiding the extreme
49:42 About Diet Doctor’s satiety calculator concept
54:34 Important update about the podcast

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Nov-09-22 at 08:27.
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  #319   ^
Old Sat, Nov-26-22, 05:32
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 12,301
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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This holiday weekend, both the .pdf and the Printed book! Are Half Price. The $80 3 pound book is $40 with free shipping (still too heavy for me), the .pdf is $10. At thePEDiet.com. Discount code is Thanksgiving .

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Nov-26-22 at 05:44.
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  #320   ^
Old Fri, Dec-02-22, 19:30
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 358
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/148.8/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 15%
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Found this thread via a link in JEY100's journal, and I'm very intrigued by a higher protein woe. I'm still doing initial reading/watching, but so far everything is clicking with me. Prior to covid hitting and me going back to SAD eating for the past 2-3 years, I was low carb/very low carb and then carnivore for a while. Starting back up this week I had it in the back of my mind that I'd eventually end up back at carnivore, but it's just so restrictive and the negatives I experienced with leg cramps and the stress with eating in social situations makes me realize it's probably not something I can stick with long term.

Focusing on protein and then eating a more balanced diet with veggies and fruit sounds like something that could be done for the long haul, I'm going to keep reading/watching and learning all that I can about this way of eating
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  #321   ^
Old Sat, Dec-03-22, 04:25
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 12,301
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Both Dr. Ted Naiman and Marty Kendall are not fans of the carnivore diet. It has its place, there have been success stories for various health conditions, but long term, there are concerns about micronutrient deficiencies. I have heard Dr Naiman express these concerns in various podcasts.
Marty‘s take on one of the carnivore diets is: https://optimisingnutrition.com/carnivore-diet/

Ps: back in 2019 when you started low carb, you mentioned using the food graphics at Diet Doctor. Dr. Naiman is now consulting for Diet Doctor on this change to higher protein and higher satiety foods. So in answer to your question about tracking, you could also use those high-protein food lists. I posted some of them in my success story and the comments.

Another good interview with Dr Naiman on DD. At minute 40, how to improve your diet in slow incremental steps: https://www.dietdoctor.com/video/po...thy-weight-loss

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Dec-03-22 at 04:43.
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  #322   ^
Old Sat, Dec-03-22, 09:21
NHSB NHSB is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 325
 
Plan: IF+HP+Cycling+Stillman
Stats: 148/143.2/130 Female 5’6”
BF:29%/27%/20%-25%
Progress: 27%
Location: New England
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Hi DaisyDawn - I saw your mention elsewhere that you found tracking stressful (I do too), and worried that the P:E approach might bring that stress back.

What has worked better for me is to design meal patterns (somewhat loosely) using somewhat simple rules that get me into the ballpark of the macros I am trying to hit. Then I make minor adjustments over time if I need to.

For example, lean meats tend to provide somewhere around 7g of protein per ounce cooked weight (raw weight is closer to 6g per ounce). 1 egg is about equivalent to 1oz meat weighed raw. If I want to aim for 120g protein, I plan to eat about 17 ounces meat weighed cooked (or 20 ounces weighed raw).

Since I cook most of what I eat, I use the raw weight grams per ounce estimate - I just use the weight marked on the raw meat packages and divide into roughly equal portions. In my 120g example, that works out to 20oz raw weight, which I tend to think of as about 1 pound of raw meat plus 4 eggs. It isn’t perfect - if you eat a mostly skinless chicken breast or steamed white fish you will end up a bit higher protein than if you eat mostly 80% ground beef, but if you eat a mixture of super lean vs. less lean, it gets you in the ballpark. You can look at the average protein per ounce of the meats you prefer to eat and use that as your estimate.

From the total goal, I create a meal pattern that appeals to me. For example, if 120g (20oz) is my target, I know I can get close to that eating 4 eggs for breakfast and cooking 1/2 of a 1 pound package of meat for lunch and again for dinner. If I think I need to dial up protein and dial down fats, I just emphasize leaner cuts over fattier cuts in the mix. I don’t need to change portion sizes to hit a perfect macro target. I find this less stressful than precise tracking.

I do something similar with servings of added fat. I do a plan once to see how many teaspoons of oil/fat, or thumb-size servings of fatty foods like avocado, olives, nuts, seeds, cheese, dark chocolate that I could have while staying under my fat gram goal, and design a standard meal pattern that stays under that. For a fat budget of about 35g fat (which is as low as I ever go), I can’t get away with any added fat - my typical protein choices hit that fat target. If I want a more generous 50g budget for fat, I can add 2 teaspoons oil/butter per meal (or 1 thumb-sized serving of fatty whole foods per meal).

I don’t count the carbs in low carb veggies, but I would plan for other carbs in a similar way.

I find this type of meal planning way less stressful than trying to track as I eat.

Hope that helps!
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  #323   ^
Old Sat, Dec-03-22, 14:30
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 358
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/148.8/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 15%
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JEY100, thanks for the link, I'll add it to my 'to read' list I went ahead and re-signed up for Diet Dr. (doing a free trial), and I loaded the app onto my phone. Going to see what's on there for higher protein.

NHSB-thanks for breaking it down another way, that does help me visualize it better! I've never intentionally tracked/targeted protein before so it's not something I can easily visualize.

I did find a P:E Diet app that I downloaded, but I'm not sure if it's an official app or not. I need to play around with it more.

eta: just read through the article about Kendall's thoughts on the carnivore woe. It was from 2018 and as a side note I thought it was interesting that one of the carnivore 'experts' he highlighted was Dr. Saladino, who has now changed up how he eats/what diet he promotes and includes large quantities of honey and fruit to his all meat plan. From what I've read carnivore worked great for him, until it didn't. Thinking through things more I wasn't able to stick with it for more than a few months, so I do think that I need to let the idea go moving forward.

I'll be spending some time giving thought to what I know works for me, what I know doesn't work for me, what my short term and long term goals are and then figure out what I'm going to be doing moving forward. I'm fortunate that I'm not dealing with any health issues and I've only got a few pounds of weight creep that I want to deal with. So, its me trying to figure out what's going to be a long term way of eating that is both satisfying and simple to do, and that promotes good health and weight for the long haul. So much to think about

Last edited by DaisyDawn : Sat, Dec-03-22 at 14:59.
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  #324   ^
Old Sun, Dec-04-22, 05:04
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 12,301
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Great if you can read back through these threads, dip into them when there is time. If you can learn through podcasts while driving to family team events, I added a list of a few I liked for a basic intro to The P:E

Kathy is the real superstar in the Ted Naiman world! She is an actual patient of his and experienced the results as he moved advice to a higher protein diet. https://www.dietdoctor.com/higher-p...ike-gangbusters

I have been a DD member forever, but don’t often look at their app…mainly because I am a frequent user of Cronometer for tracking food (the best for nutrient content) plus Marty's two apps, a simple one for Data Driven Fasting and a complex one for Nutrient Optimisation. I downloaded the PE app when Ted was beta-testing it, it is very basic so I continue to watch nutrients on the NO app and use his original simple calculator if I want to check the PE of a recipe.
https://proteinpercent.com/ (Saved to HomeScreen so it acts like an app)

After regaining weight and feeling symptoms of low thyroid, generally blah, after a decade on LC, I was "on a mission" to lose 38 pounds. i combined the data-driven fasting with Ted's LowEnergy Diet, and Marty's food timing and nutrient optimization tips, but others in the community have started with DDF, then Macros, then Micros.
DD is in the process of changing their food lists to a Satiety Score, the Food Navigator. https://www.dietdoctor.com/satiety/score

It's a new approach, I think by selecting foods above a certain "satiety" score, that would work without tracking macros??

ETA: once you open that article on the satiety score per calorie, there are the sub-categories, e.g. Dairy. Adding back low fat dairy was a huge benefit for me…1. I hadn’t been eating enough calcium, a few other vitamins, and needed microbiome support with yogurt 2. The PE calculator and Ted's interviews showed that IF you want to lose weight, non-fat yogurt and LF cottage cheese are great additions…for me they were like dessert so helped me stay on plan. 3. I didn’t particularly like high fat dairy favored by the "keto" and Atkins food lists. The Ted Naiman Ice Cream recipe tastes great, DD named it High Protein Berry Ice Cream:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/food-nav.../satiety/snacks

or on Instagram find "Protein Fluff" or "Protein Pot" recipes. As long as the low fat products have not added starches or other processed junk, they go a long way to lower calories while upping nutrients...a win-win to lose weight.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/?s=protein+pot

Dr. Naiman’s video on processed foods/whey protein: https://youtu.be/zCgDBd8FgvY

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Dec-04-22 at 13:29.
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