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  #46   ^
Old Thu, Jun-06-13, 12:51
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Breakfast:
A whole avocado smashed up and mixed with onion powder, salt, cayenne pepper and lemon juice. Using cauliflower as a dipper.
Beef broth with butter

Lunch:
"Tabouli" chicken salad (Riced cauliflower, parsley, lemon, garlic, onion, olive oil and seasoned chicken breast)

Dinner:
Salad with (or without) protein (chicken or tuna), avocado, pecans, onions. Homemade vinaigrette.
Beef broth with butter

Dessert:
Small amount of 85% chocolate with Bengal Spice tea.

Keep protein to around 60g or slightly less makes the hunger MUCH better. Going up to 70g I noticed hunger returning.
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  #47   ^
Old Thu, Jun-06-13, 13:37
tbagram's Avatar
tbagram tbagram is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 876
 
Plan: LC/HF/MP
Stats: 248/220/180 Female 67in
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Upstate New York
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Nancy , you are paying close attention to your hunger and the foods you are eating. I am finding that I am much more satisfied if I include really high fat dressings and oils. I shop at Wegmans a lot and they have an olive bar. I looked on their nutrition break down of all of their already made foods. I highlighted all that met my high fat , low carb, mod. protein. What a great variety of foods we can eat. I went to Sams Club and bought some basil pesto to smear on all of my meats. I also got 72 pieces of cooked bacon for 9.98. They also have great prices on heavy whipping cream and sour cream. How do you make the cauliflower rice?
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  #48   ^
Old Thu, Jun-06-13, 13:55
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Fat certainly helps, but not by itself. At least not for me. I need fiber to go with it. For instance, yesterday I made a smoothie with a whole avocado, berries, olive oil and egg yolk (yeah... didn't taste great, but I drank it). I never got full. It had a ton of calories and fat.

Today, a whole avocado and cauliflower was super satiating and about half the calories.

I don't know why but drinking my calories has never worked for me.

I do find olives VERY satisfying too. I often grab a handful when I'm too busy to eat a proper meal.

I use my food processor and shredding blade to "rice" the cauli. I use that as a basis for all sorts of things, like Pad Thai or that salad I mentioned.
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  #49   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 15:23
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
If you have decided on a Paleo diet and define ketogenic as under 50g or 30g carb per day, you may be able to not count calories at the beginning. But if you are aiming for Nutritional Ketosis, or the Dr Seyfried type of ketosis for cancer treatment (blood ketones over 4mm, BG under 65) then calorie restriction is very much part of that plan, in addition to carb and protein restriction.


Wow! BG under 65?? Gee, I thought 69 and under was considered hypoglycemic? I started to feel yuck when mine drops under 70. Even Dr Bernstein doesn't recommend levels that low. Does he think our cancer risk is higher if your bg gets that high?
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  #50   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 15:29
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Back in one of the Paleo discussions about NK and calorie restriction, a long time user of it had an excellent list of guidelines, and made the argument that calorie restriction is key to doing NK correctly, not just a side effect. Now I cannot find that post, but do have Ellen Davis's new book. It has nifty tables listing the diet guidelines based on Seyfried, and for example, using 150 as an "ideal weight" calorie max is 1364 with 68g protein. And caffeine and dairy fats should be restricted.


Do you mind sharing what this book is by Ellen Davis? I've tried searching Amazon but didn't notice anything diet related. Thanks!
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  #51   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 15:58
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Fat certainly helps, but not by itself. At least not for me. I need fiber to go with it. For instance, yesterday I made a smoothie with a whole avocado, berries, olive oil and egg yolk (yeah... didn't taste great, but I drank it). I never got full. It had a ton of calories and fat.

Today, a whole avocado and cauliflower was super satiating and about half the calories.

I don't know why but drinking my calories has never worked for me.

I do find olives VERY satisfying too. I often grab a handful when I'm too busy to eat a proper meal.

I use my food processor and shredding blade to "rice" the cauli. I use that as a basis for all sorts of things, like Pad Thai or that salad I mentioned.


I'd love to know what you put in your pad thai. I love pad thai.
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  #52   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 16:19
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saponaria
Wow! BG under 65?? Gee, I thought 69 and under was considered hypoglycemic? I started to feel yuck when mine drops under 70. Even Dr Bernstein doesn't recommend levels that low. Does he think our cancer risk is higher if your bg gets that high?

I think the idea is that your BG dropping really low won't feel bad if you have sufficiently high ketosis. I certainly didn't feel bad when mine got into the 70's and 60's, but my ketones are really high at those times, like 5.0+.

My Pad Thai is just a conventional Pad Thai recipe but I substitute cauliflower rice for the noodles, or shirataki, or kelp noodles. Sugar is substituted with non-caloric sweetener, I use a gluten free tamari sauce.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sat, Jun-15-13 at 16:26.
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  #53   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 16:54
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I think the idea is that your BG dropping really low won't feel bad if you have sufficiently high ketosis. I certainly didn't feel bad when mine got into the 70's and 60's, but my ketones are really high at those times, like 5.0+.

My Pad Thai is just a conventional Pad Thai recipe but I substitute cauliflower rice for the noodles, or shirataki, or kelp noodles. Sugar is substituted with non-caloric sweetener, I use a gluten free tamari sauce.


Thanks! I'm in NK right now. Started lowering carbs and protein to do it less than 2 weeks ago. But the other night I felt nauseated and weak and took my bg and it was 69. I don't know if I felt bad because I was just hungry or if it was because my bg was low but I was in NK at the time. Those are some amazingly high ketones you had there!
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  #54   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 17:24
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Just out of curiosity, what are your ketone levels, if you know.
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  #55   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 17:48
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,446
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saponaria
Do you mind sharing what this book is by Ellen Davis? I've tried searching Amazon but didn't notice anything diet related. Thanks!


Sorry, I had this in a post on research:

Quote:
The Fight Cancer with a Ketogenic Diet eBook explains how, why and provides the evidence shown in scientific studies. This essential, well referenced eBook offers 80 pages of detail on how to implement a restricted ketogenic diet to destroy cancer cells.
It provides information on:
-why a low carb, ketogenic diet works to kill cancer cells, and how to do the diet and~monitor your progress
-what blood glucose and ketone levels have to be reached to destroy cancer
-the details on what to eat and how much to eat
-why certain foods must be restricted
-why calorie restriction is important
-whether alcohol is allowed
-the debate on acidity vs alkalinity and much more.

The eBook includes all the specifics on how to correctly use the diet to put metabolic pressure on cancer cells to slow and stop cancer growth, and hopefully prevent recurrence. Ten percent of the profits from the eBook will go to support the ketogenic research of Dr. Seyfried and his team at Boston College, and Dr. Dominic D'Agostino's work on ketone esters at the University of South Florida.

More about the book: http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/cancer-diet.html

This book was written by Ellen Davis, author of the http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com and http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com websites. I have admired these websites for being so clearly written and organized, and this book too provides clear explanations and practical tips to implement the diet. The author also emphasizes in the ebook ways of adjusting the diet according to what works for the individual.
Previous discussion of Dr. Seyfried’s book:http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=450176



Again, this book and the protein level quoted is aimed for cancer patients trying to achieve a Seyfried level of Ketosis (55-65 BG and 3-7 Ketones), a goal even more strict than "Nutritional Ketosis".

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Jun-15-13 at 17:59.
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  #56   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 17:50
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Just out of curiosity, what are your ketone levels, if you know.


I'm only taking mine every other day or so in the evening because of cost. But 2-3 evenings ago it was 2.4 iirc. It had been steadily going up each time I took it so far.
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  #57   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 17:53
saponaria saponaria is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Nutritional Ketosis
Stats: 196/188/140 Female 5ft1in
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: The South
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Sorry, I had this in a post on research:


Thanks for sharing that. I'd missed the initial post. I'm very interested in the idea of ketosis for cancer treatment and prevention. I've always heard so much about raw food and vegan diets for cancer. This is such a different approach. But one I'm very interested in because I've found I personally need to be on a really low carb diet.
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  #58   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-13, 18:10
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,446
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saponaria
Thanks for sharing that. I'd missed the initial post. I'm very interested in the idea of ketosis for cancer treatment and prevention. I've always heard so much about raw food and vegan diets for cancer. This is such a different approach. But one I'm very interested in because I've found I personally need to be on a really low carb diet.


There is quite a bit of good information on using ketogenic diets for cancer treatment on this new foundation website, particularly Dr. Seyfried's presentation at AHS: http://www.singlecausesinglecure.org/
As a cancer survivor, I tried the vegetarian Cancer Project Diet and gained 60 pounds, had skin rashes, arthritis, etc. Very happy to have lost most weight gained and much healthier now on LC Paleo. I just keep my carbs in the 30-50g level; ketogenic, but not the strict goals suggested for active treatment.
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  #59   ^
Old Mon, Jul-22-13, 15:44
JordanS JordanS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 122
 
Plan: paleo/optimal diet
Stats: 235/195/185 Male 5feet 11inches
BF:12%
Progress: 80%
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Nancy, ive found protein to be my main culprit as well!

As a matter of fact, I can increase carb consumption to kwasniewski levels as long as my protein stays down. 50-60 carbs, 70-80 protein (im 5 feet 11 inches tall] and basically unlimited fat.

I really only eat that much starch 2-3x per week anyway, but im at 200lbs and sliding under 10% bodyfat.

Its easy for me to over eat carbs or protein. Coconut milk, bulletproof coffee and guacamole are my basic meals now.

KEEP PROTEIN LOW!
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  #60   ^
Old Mon, Jul-22-13, 16:04
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Well, I didn't lose any weight despite being in really rockin' ketosis. I think I might be Peter Attia's Thought #4:

Quote:
Thought #4: For reasons I have yet to fully understand, some people can only lose fat on a diet that restricts fat (and by extension a diet that is still high in carbohydrate, since I’m excluding starvation and profound caloric restriction from this discussion). In my experience (and Gardner’s A TO Z trial seems to validate this, at least in pre-menopausal women), about 20% of people aspiring to reduce adiposity seem to do it better in a higher RQ environment. Using the Ornish diet as the example from this paper, I suspect the reason is multifactorial. For example, the Ornish diet restricts many things, besides fat. It restricts sugar, flour, and processed carbohydrates. Much of the carbohydrate in this diet is very low in glycemic index and comes primarily from vegetables. So, I don’t really know how likely it is to lose weight on a eucaloric diet that is 60% CHO and 20% fat, if the quality of the carbohydrates is very poor (e.g., cookies, potato chips). The big confounder in these observations is that most low-fat diets, though still modestly high in RQ relative to a low-carb diet, reduce greatly the glycemic index and glycemic load, as well as the fructose.

http://eatingacademy.com/weight-los...ons-of-fat-flux
I'm trying to cut back on fat and not increase carbs by too much. I figure I'll eat 60-80g protein, strive for 30% of calories from fat, and the rest will be carb from LC veggies.

Boy... this is tough to do after having been LC for about a decade.
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