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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Mar-11-01, 12:18
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 37,222
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Angry

Snowing, blowing, freezing, gray and gloomy again today. It's mid-March fercryin'outloud. ENOUGH! This has been a long, rough winter. Even normally bubbly folks are feeling down.

On the SAD research front, another cross-Canada study is underway, looking at bright light therapy vs. medication, also environmental and behavioural factors. There have been some interesting theories put forth, so they are hoping to find solid evidence to validate the observations.

For example - it has long been thought that geographical latitude plays a big role in determining the likelihood of developing SAD, and even increases the incidence of SAD in the population as a whole. This is showing to be true up to the 40th parallel (New York state, Oregon ...), but further north is not as influential as once thought. Meaning, compared to California, Vancouverites are much more likely to suffer from SAD, but folks in Alaska are no more likely than Vancouver. Another observation, again not proven, is that seasonally mediated depression does not seem to be common in the southern hemisphere. I'm curious to see what they come up with on that one.

I'm also interested if they are including diet along with other environment or behavioural factors. It would be exciting if they could find a link between high-carb diet, yo-yoing blood sugar levels, and screwed up neurohormones that lead to or worsen SAD symptoms. I know they are using bright light therapy with some success to treat compulsive overeating and binge-eating disorder.

The Center for Environmental Therapies has an excellent site that maintains an up-to-date list of studies and research into recognised non-drug therapies for both physical and mood disorders.

Once again, here's the UBC SAD page. There hasn't really been anything new added since late 2000. The study I described above is being headed up by Dr. Raymond Lam at UBC, and Dr. Anthony Levitt, at U of T. I'm sure it will be a couple of years before they publish their findings. **sigh**. However, the site is well-organized, as up to date as possible, and very reader-friendly...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I found this interesting prescription for good health and longevity
Quote:
Live in rooms full of light
Avoid heavy food
Be moderate in the drinking of wine
Take massage, baths, exercise, and gymnastics
Fight insomnia with gentle rocking or the sound of running water
Change surroundings and take long journeys
Strictly avoid frightening ideas
Indulge in cheerful conversation and amusements
Listen to music.

Cornelius Celsus (first century, A.D.)
Modern science is proving ancient wisdom correct ..
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Mar-11-01, 21:02
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Unhappy SAD

I'm sorry to hear you're SAD, Doreen. I've done much better this winter than the previous two, since we've had (for us) so much sunny weather. Still, it only takes a couple of days of rain for the ol' depression and fatigue to kick in. I use the SAD light, but the only thing that really seems to help is SUNLIGHT - maybe 'cause I can get out in it.

I love the quote you posted. My dream is to be able to afford a place with a light-room. I visualize a room with a whole wall of light that I can put my desk in and just LIVE in all winter. Lots of plants, an indoor fountain, a comfy chair, and LIGHT. Wouldn't that be glorious?

Cheers (hopefully),
Rachel


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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Mar-11-01, 21:25
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 37,222
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Talking not so SAD

hey Rachel, not to worry. I'm just sufferring terminal cabin fever. I'm feeling energetic and the weather's not co-operating!!

On the subject of ideal living spaces. I moved to my current apartment two years ago for the reasons you cited. It's huge, bright and sunny (well, when there's sun) I'm on the top floor overlooking the water, my windows face south-east and south-west, since I'm on a corner. My neighbours are all 100 yrs old. I bought all kind of houseplants, and they are thriving.

Drawbacks - the sun...... in the summer, it is blazing hot in here by 6:00 am......... I do have an air conditioner, and heavy drapes, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having all that light. The water ..... not so serene when the motor boats and sea-doos etc go roaring by. And in the fall...... geese, and more geese, ducks and more ducks...... and they never SHUT UP...... And the plants...... it's like a jungle in here! They are doing TOO well, and the watering and pruning has become a full-time job .... I'm into the repotting right now. mid-May will let me move some stuff out onto my balcony, which is huge, I do love that. It's 24 feet long. Some really hot nights in the summer, I have slept out there on my chaise longue. I even had a vegetable and herb garden up here last summer.

The hundred year old neighbours don't like Bonnie Raitt, Colin James or Billie Holiday as much as i do. Darn.

And my luck would be that having a dribbly, trickling fountain noise would just keep my bladder in a constant uproar...

Everything comes with a price!! **LOL** Right now, I just want winter to be over. I'm sick of boots and heavy coats and hats and mitts. UGGHH.

Doreen
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-12-01, 10:03
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Smile Winter....be over.....

Well, I'm with you there, Doreen. Here on the Wet, I mean West Coast winter IS over...and we seem to be settling into a rather cloudy, drizzly, spring (typical). No, I shouldn't say that. It's only cloudy THIS week. Next week will be sunny. Repeat after me....next week will be sunny....

I shouldn't complain. At least it's not cold and snowy, yuck. And it hasn't been actually raining very much, it just threatens.

Your apartment sounds great. I live near the water too, but I don't have a view (well, I do, but it's a parking lot). I have lots of windows, but face NW, so hardly ever get direct sun. I also have a lot of elderly neighbours and lots of geese flying by (the geese, not the neighbours). And crows, and seagulls, and dumpster divers - all of whom are noisy in the wee hours. Still, I love being near the beach and park - wouldn't trade it.

I can't imagine winter lasting till mid-March - here we're usually into spring by mid-February, though it can stay cool and drizzly till June.

Gotta go catch my bus - see y'all later.

Rachel
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Dec-14-01, 13:11
Tikerberi's Avatar
Tikerberi Tikerberi is offline
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Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 207/201/165
BF:32%/32%/25%
Progress: 14%
Location: Ohio
Default Another perspective...

I used to have SAD here in America, and would be miserable from October through the end of February, depressed, morose, sleepy, isolating myself, etc.

Then I moved to Estonia. There, I couldn't believe when in September already it started getting dark early. By October the sun was rising at about 9 and setting around 3:30. Right now, in Estonia, "daylight," arrives around 10 am and leaves around 2.30 pm. It is not sunlight, but a gray haze, with rain, slush, mud everywhere. They pray for snow so that it will be cleaner, and it will reflect any small light there is. (I have never seen snow quite as glittery as it was there.)

My first year there, by midwinter I was on antidepressants and on medical leave from work. I couldn't function. In Finland they know about light therapy, but it is only new and seldom used to Estonians. Most people are very morose, closed, don't smile, grumpy. Everyone isolates and keeps to themselves. It is very difficult there in winter (although summers make up for it with 22 hours of sunshine....at summer solstice you can actually read outside 24 hours a day by natural light).

Anyway, so last year I came back temporarily to the US for my daughter's wedding. It was on New years. When I saw how late it was light here, and the SUN was actually shining until about 5 or later...it felt like summer to me!

Since then, this year living here, I haven't had SAD at all. I think I needed to live where it's really bad to appreciate what we have here.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Dec-14-01, 13:27
alto alto is offline
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Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default

I seem to be oblivious to light -- it's usually light here (Washington, D.C.) even on a rainy, cloudy day, like today. I did spend two weeks in Copenhagen one October and never saw the sun, not even a hint of sun. I understood why so many buildings were painted screaming yellow -- first, so you could find them in the fog, but second, so you'd remember what sunlight looked like.

I thought I was oblivious to light. That fall, I felt it after eight days. I swear it was physical and not psychological (I was having a great time.)

In Scandinavia, it is the law that every worker must have a window in his room.

There is a window (I believe it's a Finnish invention) that generates an artificial light that mimics the physical properties of sunlight.

Another Danish cure is eating lots of salmon and herring (and drinking lots of aquavit, but that's another story.)

My sympathies to all those suffering from this. I feel very guilty. We just got autumn last week. We'd had summer until them and I hated the heat -- it was in the 70s, which was great when you were outdoors, but bad in my apartment building, as the buildings are built parallel to the wind currents (no cross breeze).
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Dec-14-01, 13:58
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,222
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb sunlight

We're coming up to the Winter Solstice on Dec. 21, then the daylight hours get longer again, thank goodness. What I really notice is how much further south is the rising sun. My balcony faces east ... and in the summer, I'd have to look way up the river toward the left to see it rise. Nowadays, sunrise happens more to the right side over the lake. It's pitch dark here by 5:00 p.m.

In a way, snow is really helpful. It's so reflective, and intensifies the light even on dull days. I have to wear sunglasses through the winter or I will get terrible headaches from the glare. At the moment, there's no snow, and everything is gray and brown and dull, dull, dull. Yuk! I won't complain too loudly though ... at least I don't have to shovel and scrape away dull gray weather

Doreen
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Dec-14-01, 14:12
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,222
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb forgot to mention ...

It's amazing how effective is bright light. The general prescription is one hour of outdoor sunshine, or 30 minutes of intense bright light therapy early in the morning. Most ordinary household lights aren't bright enough (10,000 lux).

For myself, and others I've talked to ... when you're feeling well, the bright light doesn't seem to make any difference ... you don't notice it. But if you stop it ... things plummet fairly quickly .. mood, energy levels. Start up the light therapy again ... vavoom! Feeling better, and quickly too. So there's the paradox .. you have to use it every single day, even when you feel great and energetic.

I'm trying to track down a study I read about last year ... where they're using bright light therapy to also control some eating disorders ... Compulsive Overeating and Nighttime Overeating. I believe the prescription was 15 or 30 minutes of intense light therapy in the late afternoon ... It's supposed to suppress melatonin levels and other hormones which can lead to cravings and binges at night.

Doreen
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 05:58
CarrieAnn8's Avatar
CarrieAnn8 CarrieAnn8 is offline
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Posts: 94
 
Plan: Atkins / PP
Stats: 255/245/200
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

Hi, im in ontario too, close to alliston. We have just got 6 inches of snow, so you must have got some there now. i get the SAD too but this year i dont seem as bad as i usually am. I still have no desire to go anywhere. With the snow just showing up now i guess i have lots of time for the SAD to catch up with me.

Thats all for now....

Carrie-Ann
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 06:21
LC Sponge LC Sponge is offline
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Posts: 1,160
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: //2002
BF:and feeling great
Progress: 99%
Location: Ontario, along the Rideau
Default

Wakie, wakie, Doreen!

Look out your window
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 08:50
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,222
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by LC Sponge
Wakie, wakie, Doreen!

Look out your window


I didn't even need to get out of bed. The beeeeep-beeeeeep-beeeeeeep-grrrrrind of snowplows in the parking lot reminded me. Actually I was up late last night, and saw that it was snowing before I hit my pillow.

Ahh, 'tis the season of struggling with boots and heavy coats, and scraping ice and snow from the car. The trade-off for all that brightness I guess.

Doreen
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 21:24
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default Re: forgot to mention ...

Quote:
Originally posted by doreen T
I'm trying to track down a study I read about last year ... where they're using bright light therapy to also control some eating disorders ... Compulsive Overeating and Nighttime Overeating. I believe the prescription was 15 or 30 minutes of intense light therapy in the late afternoon ... It's supposed to suppress melatonin levels and other hormones which can lead to cravings and binges at night.


Oh, now *that's* interesting. Evenings are when I "pig out." And I know that in my case it's associated with a leaden can't-get-off-the-couch sort of feeling (OK, I *can* get up, but just long enough to grab another snack) and has *nothing* to do with hunger. It's also much worse in the winter, which is partly why I tend to gain weight, or, if low-carbing, at least not lose.

I've got the light on even as I type. I'm going to try a regular dose of late-afternoon light and see if it helps.

Rachel
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