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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Jan-13-19, 06:52
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I Struggle with the vast acreage across the street cleared for 50 houselots. There is no thought for the animals that used that land....and folks will be upset when the coons and skunks visit the trash... And the deer nibble the pretty bushes.


Housing is the worst abuse of nature, I agree. I was talking a friend about fracking and strip mining and she was saying how her dad would say "Let them come in and take what they want. The mountains will come back in a generation. Put houses in there, though, and it's gone forever."
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Jan-13-19, 08:41
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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I guess vegans shouldn't eat any tree fruit. Around here, where there are a lot of apple, cherry, peach, apricot, & pear orchards, bees are rented by the orchard owners to pollinate the trees.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Jan-13-19, 11:03
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,605
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Vegan isn't sustainable. Heck, I dropped vegetarianism for two big reasons:
  • It was making me fat and sick and tired and miserable.
  • I realized forget leather: all the books I read were held together with animal-based glue.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Mar-10-19, 17:52
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
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I was watching this video from The Dodo the other day (love that site, it's all animal stuff), about these people who decided to take up sailing as their lifestyle (wealthy apparently) and they got a cat and trained it for swimming and living on the boat. The cat was totally adapted to living on the boat, the shores, walking the docks (and the boats anchored there), and so on. It was having a blast, it had a great life. The logic that it isn't "natural" for a cat (originally a desert creature) to live on a boat is silly. Nothing today is what it was 5000 years ago. It's not natural for humans to live in flood zones or in artificial housing either, but do all vegans live in tents made from banana leaves? I have known people who consider wearing leather to be a moral crime, then they go home and turn on the A/C and think nothing of all that goes in to making that possible. In the end, it's a politic -- but a politic of convenience.

Reminds me of some of the Mennonites (whom I have only respect for mind you) who don't believe in modern technology, but that got rendered by convenience into "in the home," and so their have a door that opens up to a refrigerator outside. LOL! And you know, that's fine, none of MY business, and why not hybridize things so they work without entirely losing the base of the philosophy one finds worthwhile?

But the idea that anything in today's world is pure (all apples but crabapples are manmade grafts) or harmless (all farming but hydroponic kills all kinds of bugs and small creatures, not to mention the soil/water issues) or natural (which I suppose means "just like it was 5000 years ago" because there is nothing wrong with trucking bees around. We also truck rock stars and sports teams of humans around and they seem none the worse for wear from the trucking :-)).

If what is 'natural' is the condition then there is going to be a huge cognitive dissonance coming soon. Because lab-grown 'meat' is getting far closer and I would imagine vegans would really support this, but there is little less 'natural' on the menu than that.

PJ
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Mar-10-19, 18:04
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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As I jump into gardening more and more, many veg is paRthogenic. Yup, no bees needed. Often these varieties are selected for greenhouse use. Some tomatoes, some cukes.

With the collapse of many honey bee hives, we will depend more and more on other types of bees, ie mason bees.

Otherwise much of the greenhouse produced veg is aided by a paint brush or electric toothbrush and a human hand. Does that also make it not vegan?

(Spelling corrected. lol)

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Mon, Mar-11-19 at 07:18.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Mar-10-19, 18:29
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Just to clarify some of pj,s good message....many people use open polinated varieties of tomatoes, and some hybrids, intentionally crossed varieties or aided by bees or a quirky genetic twist where a branch changed its fruit. While im not a tomato guru, i read the works of those that are. Open polinated and hybrid should not be confused with GMO. Is that confusing??!
Some people practice non tilling farming. Can be no dig or lasagna type. In both no digging and new material layered on. Allows the micro organisms to flourish and be beneficial.

Grafting. I have some twenty grafted fruit trees, to keep the size manageable and/or aid in disease tolerance. Few grow from seed unless looking for a new variety. Even the crabapples are grafted in order to duplicate the characteristics of the original tree.

The original yellow delicious was purchased for something like $50,000 and then caged to prevent anyone from taking cuttings. Today it is a beloved variety well known to everyone.

Today shipping grafted trees is very easy. Less need to plant a seed, but that can still be done. Cox orange pippin is a parent or grand parent to many varieties each an improvement over some culturing problems with COP.

I have seed ready to start. When it has grown a few years, it can be grafted to a fast growing rootstock and get flowering earlier to test fruit quality.

Praying more and more people continue to dabble in breeding plants suitable to their own micro climate.
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Mar-11-19, 06:10
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
pathenogenic


A clarification. I think you meant paRthenogenic--that is, self fertilizing. Without the R it sounds like disease-producing (pathology, etc.)

Just in case folks might want to be using that word in a sentence today.

I am proud of DH for yet another reason: He has taken up beekeeping with very serious commitment. He has two teams of beekeepers and apprentice beekeepers to maintain hives in gardens providing food for neighborhoods. This effort produces a cascade of benefits for people, plants...and bees.
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Mar-11-19, 07:21
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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THanks Barbara, spelling corrected. It is not the disease state-- spell check didnt catch te error and neither did I.

Awesome that your DH is supporting another layer of food production. I wish I was there to help. Getting anything off the ground here is met with walls too high to jump. Starting with the recipients-- now used to hand outs rather than a hand up.
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