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  #1351   ^
Old Sat, Sep-26-20, 05:11
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,390
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Once the body is flooded with energy from unlocking fat storage, BMR can be recalibrated.

Dr. Jack Kruse has a Leptin Reset I used to start my own journey back to health:

https://jackkruse.com/leptin-reset-easy-start-guide/
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  #1352   ^
Old Sat, Sep-26-20, 07:33
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 15,596
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Once the body is flooded with energy from unlocking fat storage, BMR can be recalibrated.

Dr. Jack Kruse has a Leptin Reset I used to start my own journey back to health:

https://jackkruse.com/leptin-reset-easy-start-guide/



Opening to read NOW. TY
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  #1353   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-20, 13:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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Darn, behind a paywall in NYT today, by Anahad O'Connor. Potential downside of intermittent fasting

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/...nt-fasting.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...YUMEL9R0_K6eur8


Quote:

September 28, 2020 Effects of Time-Restricted Eating on Weight Loss and Other Metabolic Parameters in Women and Men With Overweight and Obesity The TREAT Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points
Question What is the effect of time-restricted eating on weight loss and metabolic health in patients with overweight and obesity?

Findings In this prospective randomized clinical trial that included 116 adults with overweight or obesity, time-restricted eating was associated with a modest decrease (1.17%) in weight that was not significantly different from the decrease in the control group (0.75%).

Meaning Time-restricted eating did not confer weight loss or cardiometabolic benefits in this study.

Abstract
Importance The efficacy and safety of time-restricted eating have not been explored in large randomized clinical trials.

Objective To determine the effect of 16:8-hour time-restricted eating on weight loss and metabolic risk markers.

Interventions Participants were randomized such that the consistent meal timing (CMT) group was instructed to eat 3 structured meals per day, and the time-restricted eating (TRE) group was instructed to eat ad libitum from 12:00 pm until 8:00 pm and completely abstain from caloric intake from 8:00 pm until 12:00 pm the following day.

Design, Setting, and Participants This 12-week randomized clinical trial including men and women aged 18 to 64 years with a body mass index (BMI, calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared) of 27 to 43 was conducted on a custom mobile study application. Participants received a Bluetooth scale. Participants lived anywhere in the United States, with a subset of 50 participants living near San Francisco, California, who underwent in-person testing.

Main Outcomes and Measures The primary outcome was weight loss. Secondary outcomes from the in-person cohort included changes in weight, fat mass, lean mass, fasting insulin, fasting glucose, hemoglobin A1c levels, estimated energy intake, total energy expenditure, and resting energy expenditure.

Results Overall, 116 participants (mean [SD] age, 46.5 [10.5] years; 70 [60.3%] men) were included in the study. There was a significant decrease in weight in the TRE (−0.94 kg; 95% CI, −1.68 to −0.20; P = .01), but no significant change in the CMT group (−0.68 kg; 95% CI, -1.41 to 0.05, P = .07) or between groups (−0.26 kg; 95% CI, −1.30 to 0.78; P = .63). In the in-person cohort (n = 25 TRE, n = 25 CMT), there was a significant within-group decrease in weight in the TRE group (−1.70 kg; 95% CI, −2.56 to −0.83; P < .001). There was also a significant difference in appendicular lean mass index between groups (−0.16 kg/m2; 95% CI, −0.27 to −0.05; P = .005). There were no significant changes in any of the other secondary outcomes within or between groups. There were no differences in estimated energy intake between groups.

Conclusions and Relevance Time-restricted eating, in the absence of other interventions, is not more effective in weight loss than eating throughout the day.

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Sep-28-20 at 13:18.
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  #1354   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-20, 15:06
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Good thing I didn't read articles like this before I started my IF regimen in late February. I've lost 53 pounds since this and all my health/metabolic markers have greatly improved. If I wasn't plugged into the network here, and had read a lot already about IF, reading an article like this might have discouraged me from even starting. Fortunately I was already a Fung fangirl.

But I admit I didn't have any progress in doing the 16:8 plan as documented in this study.
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  #1355   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-20, 15:10
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 15,596
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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"Fung Fans"

Lol, Im in.
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  #1356   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 03:37
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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Or Fungsters

If there was no change in the diet first, how did they expect people to fast without overeating in the 8 hour window?

Last week, Dr Tro posted an Interview with the steps to add Fasting for his clinic weight loss patients. Food first, then a gradual reduction in the eating windows. Many good resources in the comments as well. https://www.facebook.com/DoctorTro/...773949933394424

CUT non-fiber carbs first!

EDIT ADD:
Diet Doctor's analysis of how this study may be interpreted.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-stud...ut-is-that-true

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Sep-29-20 at 04:06.
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  #1357   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 07:12
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,678
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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The DietDoctor analysis is, as usual, very measured and thorough. One would already know why the TRE group in the study did not show significant results after reading The Obesity Code by Fung and Why We Get Sick by Bikman. My experience with TRE is extensive; yet, success is due to the fact that I'm eating a strict keto diet and am consistent with a two-meal, six-hour eating window. My insulin resistance has resolved, and I find this daily eating protocol excellent for weight and health maintenance. I strongly believe that eating healthy whole foods combined with IF and TRE on all days when not IFing is an effective way to achieve and maintain good health.
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  #1358   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 07:16
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 15,596
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
If there was no change in the diet first, how did they expect people to fast without overeating in the 8 hour window?


From reading and experience, refeeding after a fast results in more than usual consumption. But the full amount of two days worth. When ADF pattern is followed, the net reduction in calories has a noteable weight loss effect.

If just occassional fasts, the metabolic healing is worth the health effect. Scale not affected much.

Sticking to keto also helps with food management to lower calories during 8 hr TRE.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Tue, Sep-29-20 at 09:20.
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  #1359   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 07:28
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 793
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/181/165 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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I thought the Diet Doctor's analysis of the experiment was well worth reading. He didn't say much about the "normal eating" group not sticking to the protocol - and I wondered why

Contrast with the fasting group that did stick with the protocol

I wonder why the analysis of # daily calorie intake was not part of the discussion. Did the fasting group eat more calories/day than the "normal" group?

Instead Diet Doctor focuses upon which foods eaten that were not part of the analysis.

I have more questions than the Diet Doctor does.
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  #1360   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 07:40
Ambulo's Avatar
Ambulo Ambulo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,780
 
Plan: LerC, TRE, IF
Stats: 150/126/120 Female 64 inches
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: the North, England
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There's always one ....

I am someone who lost weight doing TRE without being low carb. Not on 16/8 though. Far too long an eating window for someone who likes food! I did 19/5. Lowered my carbs for health reasons after reaching goal.
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  #1361   ^
Old Tue, Sep-29-20, 07:59
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,680
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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My experience with shortened eating windows is that they did make intentionally eating less easier to do--but didn't make that much difference if I wasn't restricting on purpose--no spontaneous weight loss. Maybe it's a useful tool, but you have to know which end's the handle?

Cico--people argue about that. I think there's more than one way to look at things. Mainstream bodybuilding dieters argue calorie in/calorie out, you have to restrict calories to lose weight. One low carb view is that changing food choices may decrease appetite, or increase energy out--I know what i'm eating has a big effect on whether I'm passed out on the couch or up and about on my day off--so, you eat differently, and that gets you weightloss.

I'm not sure sometimes that the equations are so much different so much as put in different terms. There've been times with low carb when I've counted calories. Say my maintenance seems to be 2400 calories at the time and I wanted to eat 2000 comfortably. So I count, and try different foods. Turns out pork chops, eggs, heavy cream and butter, I can eat 2000 calories a day and be satisfied--but 2000 calories with those same foods, but add cheese, pork rinds and peanut butter, and I'll blow through that calorie limit--and still be unsatisfied. So I could say, my appetite was reduced by different food choices so I ate less calories--or that I tolerated a greater calorie restriction better by making different food choices.

The eight hour fasting style seems to be most common with the bodybuilding set. I think maybe it's due to the sort of structured eating plans they tend to. If you're weighing every sprig of cauliflower and ounce of tuna, at least you only have to do that for eight hours.
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  #1362   ^
Old Mon, Nov-02-20, 06:46
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,678
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default Analysis of TRE (IF) Study

This is an excellent and more detailed analysis by Dom D'Agostino of the TRE study published last month:
https://www.ketonutrition.org/blog/...ss-is-this-true

ETA: Good advice from the folks at KetoNutrition more or less advising not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Given that subjects in the study were not told what to eat, the study had some very loose controls. Some of the recommendations by D'Agostino make sense to me. For me, TRE (IF) works when I'm eating healthy whole foods low in carbs and combining a consistent program of physical activity. Matter of fact, it's the way I've been eating and living for several years now, and it's working very well. I believe it can work very well also for those who are following Marty Kendall's program, as it bases meal timing on blood glucose readings. Some of the participants have weighed in on their positive experiences already. Also, those following IDM, as I once did in the past, typically experience very positive results due to sound food consumption and IF guidelines.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Mon, Nov-02-20 at 07:44.
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  #1363   ^
Old Mon, Nov-02-20, 08:04
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,943
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q2)
Stats: 168/92/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
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Have not read it but the first paragraph and noted,

Quote:
The chosen eating window was 12 pm to 8 pm


I'm doing an experiment this quarter and restricting my intake of food from "Waking until 12 noon" This is hard for my life style but I'm trying to break the habit of feasting before rolling into bed and passing out

I'm interested in this article and will read later, thanks Rob.
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  #1364   ^
Old Mon, Nov-02-20, 14:11
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,661
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/000/000 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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TRE keeps my head in the game. OMAD at times turns into a couple meals - and I keep track of the time from my last meal / eating. Sometimes the OMAD turns into an IF. I mix it up a lot.
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  #1365   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-20, 14:16
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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Great article by Dom listing the problems with this study. As an overweight person who volunteered for a University study with a control group Iíll add another...the motivated participant who was disappointed not to be picked for TRE arm, so she does everything allowed and then some in the control group. Not only pushes the eating window to the limits of Meal 1 &3, but also eats fewer calories and exercises more. Everyone volunteered for a weight loss study...they were hoping to lose weight! and use the accountability of being in a study to accomplish that, even those in the control.
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