Thanks, Janet, for your experience with the meters. I love that other people also keep records from eons ago and compare progress and non-progress. My wedding night weight was 135 and I considered myself a fat cow who obviously doesn't deserve happiness. Sigh.

BUT, I just went back to stats from November 2020, and I'm down 11 pounds and 12 inches overall from that time. That made me feel much better.

OH!!! I just saw on the DDF Facebook page that some people are having wonky BG readings after getting the Covid vaccine. I had my first injection last Friday, and my numbers have been wonky all week. Could that be it? If so, that actually makes me feel better because at least I know that it's not something I'm doing (or not doing) and that it should resolve itself.

As for maintenance mode, I'm going to stick with my current trigger of 80 and just see how well I do. It's in my DNA that if I slack off, I end up throwing in the towel, so I won't do that this time. It's no big deal to take a couple readings daily, and if I want to have a celebration dinner or just loosen the reins for one meal of one day, I'll just roll with the numbers and ignore them as the distractions they are.

I have seen quite a few mention BG rises after the vaccine, in the LC group as well. I didn't notice any difference either first or second dose. Only a minor side effect after the first shot, second dose nothing.

THIS is why crowd sourcing is so important. I wonder how diabetics are dealing with this. I'm just glad I have an answer.

I've been puzzling on this lately and could really use your brains (I promise to give them back afterward). I understand what Marty Kendall, Ted Naiman, and Eric Westman are saying about if you want to lose body fat, you need to cut down on dietary fat or you'll end up just burning the fat you're eating and not the fat you're storing.

That certainly makes sense, but how low in fat do you have to go? Kendall says to shoot for 40% protein and 15% carbs; that leaves 45% for fat. For most of March I’ve been averaging 900 calories with 110 grams protein, 21 grams carbs (no fiber deducted), and 45 grams of fat. The percentages are very close to what Kendall recommends (a bit lower in carbs and a bit higher in protein), but maybe 45 grams of fat and 900 calories are too low.

HOWEVER. Back when I was doing the Atkins plan and pretty much had the book memorized, Dr. Atkins said under no circumstances were you to try to do his low-carb plan without sufficient fat. He said it won't work. Back in the early 2000s, I remember that all the low-carb forums were filled with people trying to do a low-fat version of Atkins and others who kept warning them that it won't work as well. Quote from the 2002 book: “I cannot stress strongly enough that trying to do a low-fat version of Atkins will interfere with fat burning and derail your weight loss.”

And here’s a quote from Dr. Eades in the original “Protein Power” book: “Your body can and will use incoming dietary fat as fuel to burn to meet its energy needs … Keep an eye on your carbohydrate intake—don’t worry about counting fat grams.” Of course, in a footnote he also says, “If you are trying to lose weight—especially if you are a small person—you may have to curb your fat intake somewhat. Otherwise you may have too much food coming in, so your body won’t need to dip into your fat stores.” Sorry, but isn’t the purpose of the entire book to teach you how to lose weight???

So, who's right?

How low is everyone going in terms of calories and fat grams?

I'm averaging 900 calories, 110 grams protein (48% of total calories), 21 grams carbs (no fiber deducted; 9% of calories), and 45 grams of fat (45% of calories). I'm eating lunch and dinner only, no snacking, and I'm not hungry between meals.

Calories too low? Fat too low?

Happy to share what I've learned and experienced in varying my consumption of fat. Short answer: I believe all are correct, that is Kendall, Naiman, Westman, and Eades. The thing I try to keep in mind is that we are all coming from different situations and trying to achieve common but differing goals with personal priorities. So, while I learn much from all here, I also have to put what I've learned in my personal context and learn from my experiences.

For me, I believe that the guidelines Atkins provides are accurate, but very general. For now, I like Eades' recommendations, as I do well with a certain amount of fat. Unlike some others, fat does give me satiety, but I don't overdo it. Fine tuning is where Westman and Naiman come in, as when I want to lose weight, I am much more conscious of the amount of fat I eat. I certainly never eat fat bombs or bulletproof coffee, so I am careful to eat only the fat that rides along with protein I eat. It's made a big difference.

Kendall and Naiman to a degree, are much more in the weeds where they are measuring and paying attention to macro ratios. I think this is very helpful to establish a benchmark or awareness of how we each need to eat personally, but it must be applied differently to each of us. Knowing that I'm not generally an "in the weeds" person after I learn something, I use their recommendations to develop guidelines for my healthy eating.

So, long winded, but back to fat. Fat is healthy if we eat the correct fats, but the keto craze is like fat consumption on steroids. Just like those supporting zero fat and risking good health, keto has gone the other way, and I believe many are reacting to these extremes. Would some consider the amount of fat I eat to be too much? Yes, if you're coming from a low-fat approach. No, if you're coming from a distorted keto approach where people eat fat to reduce their protein needs for fear of over-consuming it and triggering the dreaded gluconeogenesis. Bikman has strongly refuted this dynamic for those eating low carb.

Over the past year, I examined my fat consumption, and eliminated all fats not attached to the foods I eat with the exception of olive oil, butter, and very occasional HWC to add for flavor. For me, this is the best approach without measuring and pursuing a constant "in the weeds" approach.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with you. While on Atkins and Protein Power long ago, I ate a lot more fat than I have on this Challenge. I'd have eggs scrambled in lots of butter with cheese along with bacon on the side for breakfast. A snack might be a half cup of blackberries swimming in a half cup of heavy cream; or, Philly with heavy cream, peanut butter, and a bit of sweetener. Dinner might be a steak or pork or chicken, usually topped with just butter or with a cream-based sauce. (I was never a Bulletproof Coffee or fat bombs kind of person.) I remember shooting for about 62% fat.

I lost weight like crazy then. Granted, that was 20 years ago.

In this challenge, I'm so afraid of getting the fat too high that I won't even eat eggs because there's a lot of fat in eggs, and I certainly wouldn't add cheese. Also, for the most part, I'm eating only lean meats -- heavy on the chicken breasts, pork tenderloin, 90% lean ground beef -- and not adding fat.

I lost 7 pounds in the first 2 weeks of the challenge, and only 1 more pound in the more than 4 weeks that followed. It just seems like I should be losing a bit better on 900 calories and very low fat intake.

Guess I'm looking for that happy medium.

I've decided to restart baseline again. Not looking forward to finger pricks before and after each meal/snack for several days, but maybe it's for the best. A few days ago I decided to increase calories from 900 to 1300, keep the protein the same (around 105), and increase fat and carbs slightly. If my goal had been to gain 3 pounds in as many days, I was wildly successful.

Loving DDF Maint so far!

Tested new Contour Next One agains KetoMojo v2 this morning. Anyone want a KetoMojo when I'm done with the strips?

Yeah, I'm thinking the same drop of blood should not give a reading of both 105 and 87. At least the Contour One is closer in the range. Based on comments I've read on the FB page, no one thinks the Keto Mojo is worth getting.

Hah! Two out of three isn't bad . . . . . . . . . but that first one . . .

Haven't started my baseline exercise yet, but as mentioned, I plan to test the old and new Keto Mojo. I just received 240 glucose strips for the v2. Maybe I'll use them for tiny wallpaper strips or a medical-themed backsplash to serve as a reminder . . .

A massive overhaul, organization into sections, and general "buffing up" of the DDF manual. Posted on the Optimising Nutrition website, the first section: What makes DDF different?

https://optimisingnutrition.com/wha...nt-faq-part-1-2

Thanks for posting that, Janet! Good improvements. When Marty first posted it, none of the hyperlinks worked and the link to the Navy Body Fat Calculator was giving errors. They fixed all that and re-posted an updated manual.

I decided to start with a new baseline to reset my trigger, so I reset everything the other day and got myself ready for 3 days of finger sticks. Turns out I got busy and didn't always take the readings -- in fact, I took none yesterday. Despite missing an entire day of readings, this morning it said I was done with baselining and got a trigger of 97 (at the end of the March challenge my trigger was 80). I'm now in hunger training again.

I just discovered this thread. I’ve signed up for the 17 Apr challenge.

I’m going to go read all your posts and hope it answers some of my questions.

diane

You'll have a good time Iceberg - it's a little overwhelming and confusing at first but you'll get the hang of it by the end of the session haha! I'm going for another round as I signed up for unlimited. I'd like to get my BMI to 24.9 and see what my body fat is at that point - that's one of my "Why's" that you write down.

PS, I think I topped the chart on the percent bodyweight change unless there's someone with my name - lol - all water weight but the fat is starting to slowly get used up now, I can really tell.

Hoping I don't get BG too low during maintenance mode and binge on donuts. I notice that when my BG get's low (for me, into the 70's) I start to think about junk food, and sometimes in the past I have acted on that impulse. I likely will again but know i have a better clue where those thoughts might be coming from, not some distant memory of childhood trauma or something, it might be the BG dummy!

I'm going to re-base line when the time comes Apr 17 - i'm already getting all the re-reading and workbook started. I'll also review the manual and keep up with the guides - I've seen it all before but practice makes for better visceral understanding for me.

Wow! Congrats, Thud! Or should I call you Eric? That's an amazing amount of weight to lose in a month, and it's NOT all water weight.

I don't think I'll be as anal in checking Done on all the reading and daily posts. I'll again read it as it comes, but if I fall behind, no biggie.

Earlier in the year before the challenge, hubby brought home 4 large coffee rolls from Dunkin' Donuts. I was checking BG at the time, thinking about joining a future challenge, but then didn't. So, I took a reading before the coffee roll and it was something like 95. Then I took it again an hour later and it was 134! That's enough to keep you from indulging again.