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  #166   ^
Old Sun, Feb-07-21, 04:23
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,753
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
ETA: One of the more recent articles by Marty compares those eating OMAD to multiple meals and related caloric consumption. The fascinating thing is that those who ate 2 meals a day had the lowest consumption of calories. The fascinating part is that this isn't purposeful calorie deprivation, it's simply the dynamic of hunger and consumption for those eating twice a day. We naturally desire eat less. Consistent with my realization that I eat much less than when I ate "healthy high carb" not because I'm limiting myself, but because I eat to satiety, and my "off" switch kicks in much sooner.


That was fascinating, and mirrors my own experience. I've never been hungry when I first wake up, and now dislike going to bed with a full stomach; all of that has shaped into a natural 2 meals a day program.
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  #167   ^
Old Sun, Feb-07-21, 12:47
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,329
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
That was fascinating, and mirrors my own experience. I've never been hungry when I first wake up, and now dislike going to bed with a full stomach; all of that has shaped into a natural 2 meals a day program.
Same here. On OMAD I would often eat until over-full so I wouldn't "cave in" and eat again later, often choosing higher fat foods to keep me satiated (it may not have been necessary physically, but mentally it kept me on track). Two meals a day, usually at 11am-12 and 5-6pm feels natural to me; I don't feel the need to overeat, just aim for my protein and low carb targets and let the fat fall where it may. My farming ancestors also did this; two meals a day frees up 30 minutes a day (>180 hrs/yr) for more work and play.

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Feb-07-21 at 12:55.
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  #168   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-21, 05:16
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,753
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
My farming ancestors also did this; two meals a day frees up 30 minutes a day (>180 hrs/yr) for more work and play.


Which brings up another angle which I love: I am able to figure out if I'm really hungry, or not. For me, if I don't want the protein-based meals I have found both nourish and satiate me: I'm not hungry. Or, at least, not hungry enough.

I also think Marty Kendall is on the right track with optimal nutrition: from rescuing starving cats, I know they will keep eating until their body goes: We got nutrients! Stand down! Shut off those alarms!

And we're hungry until we do get those nutrients.
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  #169   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-21, 08:08
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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The LowCarbMD podcast with Marty dropped into iTunes this morning. I've been waiting for this one https://lowcarbmd.com/episode-161-marty-kendall
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  #170   ^
Old Thu, Feb-18-21, 13:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Marty has freely shared another of the "keto lies" from his book.

Keto Lie #5: Fat is a Ďfree foodí because it doesnít elicit an insulin response

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...sulin-response/

I am struggling to keep up with all the micronutrient information in the Optimising Nutrition Masterclass. Glad I tried it, interesting, but not sure my body loves the foods involved

I also signed up for the Unlimited Data Driven Fasting so the next session will start again first weekend of March, before the Masterclass ends. It is keeping me busy for sure.

If interested in learning about Data Driven Fasting: https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/home
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  #171   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 08:34
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Fat does seem to be a 'free-er' food for me--but I don't know how much that has to do with insulin, and how much it has to do with other satiation mechanisms. I can eat all I want at strictly ketogenic ratios--but all I want is much less than if I eat something more carby. Including something very low fat and carby. With the exception of potatoes, which judging by my attempts at the potato hack, above very small amounts, apparently I hate.

In sugar studies with rodents--add a little sugar to chow, the animals eat more of it. A little more, they eat more. This only works so far--at some point, adding more sugar starts lowering consumption--you pass the point of maximal palatability, the food is too sweet (or some other appetite-suppressing mechanism kicks in). In a similar vein--the amount of buttered bread you can eat is likely to have more calories than the amount of plain butter you can eat. Tell a person to drink olive oil, first response is likely "ugh." Not that appealing. Same amount of olive oil in some dish goes down easy. You can add calories and make food less satiating-per-calorie--famously, studies tend to look at the calories added being fat, or sometimes sugar, but I think even just common experience shows that it can just as well be starch, or even protein. Even something like celery or another very low digestible macronutrient vegetable, remember the phrase 'vehicle for butter'--likely increases the fat you would eat.
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  #172   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 03:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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The higher fat helps many with mood, but luckily by following Dr Westman's Clinic diet, I never got into the "high fat" part much. A few experiments along the way, but I could not choke down added dietary fats and would always come back to around 40%. Now that I am obsessively tracking for this NO Masterclass, surprised I am still 40%P, 20%C, 40% F. I would still like to lose some body fat, and will try to move to Dr Naiman's own macros, 40/30/30.

Marty has a good explanation of Nutrient Density, why adding back some carbs from the low levels I have been following has helped me lose weight.



Keto Lie #6: Food quality is not important. Itís all about reducing insulin and avoiding carbs


https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...-avoiding-carbs

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Feb-20-21 at 04:38.
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  #173   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 06:00
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Keto Lie #7: Fasting for longer is better

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/

There is another active thread on Data Driven Fasting where I updated my macros Feb 6-26th. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...26&postcount=46
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  #174   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-21, 04:17
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Keto Lie #8: Insulin toxicity is enemy #1

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...city-is-enemy-1

My lesson for this week of Optimizing Nutrients, It's hard to change macros unless you truly plan ahead and purposely change meals....by a lot. This past week, 42% P, 40% fat and calories 1052...no change really!
By falling back to easy recipes, like the lower fat scrambled eggs, my macros did not improve. I wasted over an hour yesterday moaning about why my Vit D intake was low, only to go back through Cronometer and see a Trader Joe's smoked salmon label I used had 0% for all the nutrients. Lesson, use the NCCDB food information not only most of the time, but for every entry.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Mar-07-21 at 08:16.
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  #175   ^
Old Tue, Mar-16-21, 14:41
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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  #176   ^
Old Sat, Mar-20-21, 08:50
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Well, I survived. And even lost 5 more pounds from start to finish..now 8 pounds below the start of a healthy BMI for me. The Nutrient Optimisation Masterclass was a great learning experience for anyone who wants to get deep in the weeds of micronutrients in their food. If you want to improve nutrition without relaying on supplements, this is the program.

Definitely think one should start with the DDF program first and not do them at the same time, even a two week overlap. There were some superstars who did manage it, alas, that was not me. I lost focus after starting DDF, but did eat some new nutrient dense foods. Marty of course gives tons of information so I can continue "studying".
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  #177   ^
Old Sat, Mar-20-21, 09:53
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Good results, Janet. "Masterclass" certainly sounds like an apt description. Have you been able to take away your learning and apply it to enhance and refine your WOE long term? What are your top two or three lessons learned?
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  #178   ^
Old Sun, Mar-21-21, 04:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,495
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Hi Rob,

Top lesson, eat more fish. Wild caught sockeye salmon leads the nutrient score for me. Ancillary lesson, how to bake half a Costco bag of salmon filets at once and reduce odor. You can never have enough salmon in cans too.

Increasing carbs with carrots and lots of green fibrous veg works well for me, filling meals with continued weight loss and lower waking BG. Again Costco saved the day with a frozen premium stir-fry veggie mix. Heat in pan, add a protein. A carton of egg whites was eye-opening..the easiest protein to add for few calories. It took me the whole six weeks but learning the value of Cronometer to determine the nutrient density of foods is something that will last (thank you, Jean!).

One reason behind wanting to bring down my waking BG was this "lie", also an article posted last August. I can accept that low carbers can have higher LDL than "normal" and that is fine, even healthy. But the whole "adaptive glucose sparing" or "physiological insulin resistance" explanation for flat but higher BG concerned me. Could my often slightly above "normal" BG be causing health problems?. One of the NOM moderators, a soon-to-be doctor, also dropped the very low carb Keto approach to correct this issue himself. Concerns over losing metabolic flexibility, almost a "intolerance to carbs" if you will. This Program attracted sciencey types, with yet more useful information from Marty, to help me rebalance my macros...slowly. Still not to Ted Naiman's 40%P, 30%, 30%, but then that is maintenance.


Keto Lie #10: Stable blood sugars will lead to fat loss
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...oss/#more-22678

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Mar-21-21 at 09:00.
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  #179   ^
Old Sun, Mar-21-21, 07:53
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Well, I survived. And even lost 5 more pounds from start to finish..now 8 pounds below the start of a healthy BMI for me. The Nutrient Optimisation Masterclass was a great learning experience for anyone who wants to get deep in the weeds of micronutrients in their food. If you want to improve nutrition without relaying on supplements, this is the program.

Definitely think one should start with the DDF program first and not do them at the same time, even a two week overlap. There were some superstars who did manage it, alas, that was not me. I lost focus after starting DDF, but did eat some new nutrient dense foods. Marty of course gives tons of information so I can continue "studying".

I faded from NO Masterclass - too much. I agree, DDF to start and get a feel then NO Masterclasss - not at same time for me. I'm currious about the HOW part of the program to that was mentioned in last night meeting. I think they'll be tying it all together with:

When: DDF
What: NO Master Class
How: ???

Leaving the "Why" out of datadriven science is smart
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  #180   ^
Old Sun, Mar-21-21, 09:59
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Hi Rob,

Top lesson, eat more fish. Wild caught sockeye salmon leads the nutrient score for me. Ancillary lesson, how to bake half a Costco bag of salmon filets at once and reduce odor. You can never have enough salmon in cans too.

Increasing carbs with carrots and lots of green fibrous veg works well for me, filling meals with continued weight loss and lower waking BG. Again Costco saved the day with a frozen premium stir-fry veggie mix. Heat in pan, add a protein. A carton of egg whites was eye-opening..the easiest protein to add for few calories. It took me the whole six weeks but learning the value of Cronometer to determine the nutrient density of foods is something that will last (thank you, Jean!).

One reason behind wanting to bring down my waking BG was this "lie", also an article posted last August. I can accept that low carbers can have higher LDL than "normal" and that is fine, even healthy. But the whole "adaptive glucose sparing" or "physiological insulin resistance" explanation for flat but higher BG concerned me. Could my often slightly above "normal" BG be causing health problems?. One of the NOM moderators, a soon-to-be doctor, also dropped the very low carb Keto approach to correct this issue himself. Concerns over losing metabolic flexibility, almost a "intolerance to carbs" if you will. This Program attracted sciencey types, with yet more useful information from Marty, to help me rebalance my macros...slowly. Still not to Ted Naiman's 40%P, 30%, 30%, but then that is maintenance.


Keto Lie #10: Stable blood sugars will lead to fat loss
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...oss/#more-22678

Thanks, Janet. Good summary, and Keto Lie #10 is one I've paid more attention to recently. While I upped my protein a couple years ago, I now focus on nutrient density in selected vegetables to ride along with healthy, nutrient dense protein. Salmon has been one focal point, I'll have to troll for the canned fish options as well. Eating frequency, another area I've focused on over the past year, is critical, and I strongly believe that's the key to managing my waking and pre-meal BG combined with the right nutrients consumed.

Wonder if Marty plans to make his DDF spreadsheet available (happy to purchase) to enable people to move in and out of DDF periodically to perform "true ups." This would be very useful to me.
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