I have two boys, 9 and 11, who are going on a LC diet as of the first day of school. My nine yo is average height and overly round at 110#. My 11 yo is going thru a growth spurt and has really slimmed down but has some torso fat.
My question is how much to limit milk for growing bones? I am modifying Atkins for them and figured using 20 carbs like induction, but also allowing milk with meals and other calcium from spinach and the like. At 12 grams per serving-that would put them at 36+20=56 grams.
Has anyone had any luck with doing something similar for their kids? Do you think that would limit carbs too much for growing boys?

Rather than just improvising with such young children and risking harming their health, perhaps you should do some research and reading. There is a Sugar Busters for Kids book and I think there is also a Carbohydrates Addicts book aimed at parents of younger children. If I were going to put kids on a lowcarb diet, I would read these books.

I always debate how to answer questions by parents who want to put their kids on diets. My parents put me on many diets as I was growing up and the end results was that I developed eating disorders and became a fat adult. I strongly recommend against putting pre-adolescents and adolescents on diets. You write yourself that your 11-year-old is slimming down as he grows. Your 9-year-old may well do the same thing.

Both my kids put on weight in the pre-adolescent years and both slimmed down as they went through their growth spurt (my son is 6'2" and 150 pounds and my daughter is 5'6" and 120 pounds). My son stayed at 150 pounds from 5'6" to 6'2". I never discussed dieting with them, although I did discuss healthy eating. Neither has developed an eating disorder.

If kids ask their parents for help with losing weight, I think the parents should help. Based on my personal experience (both myself growing up and my kids), I think that parents should be very hesitant about imposing a diet on their kids. Adolescents love to rebel and putting them on a diet gives them a wonderful opportunity to do so.

I have done my reading, and I am not imposing my diet on my kids. They've seen their doctor. They have seen my results, and are not happy fat. My youngest is quite heavy, tired of being teased and asked for help with his weight. My oldest has already adopted many of my habits on his own. My question was about milk.

There are a ton of veggies that contain calcium naturally. Since they are kids you should probably also start them on OWL more then induction and include fruits and nuts. Check for calcium counts on those. Get whole milk unsweetened yogurt. The whole milk tastes great and has a ton of good bacterias. Mix it with some berries, or I'mm mix mine with a scoop of protien shake mix for a mouse or pussing like treat.

It would also be a good idea to make sure the whole family is drinking enough water and supplimenting calcium/magnesium/pottasium and a good multi vitamin. All childrens vitamins I've seen are mostly sugar. Ask your pediatricion for a non sugar perscription one. Also get the proper doses of other suppliments for thier age and weights from the doctor.

In some countries milk is only for infants. Drinking it after that, and animal milk, is considered disgusting.

High Calcium Foods
200g tub regular fruit yoghurt (358mg)
35g cheddar cheese (275mg)

Medium Calcium Foods
100g canned salmon (185mg with bones)
100g canned mackerel (180mg)
50g canned sardines or 2 small herrings (150mg)
2 - 3 scoops of ice cream (135mg) ( you can get LC icecream LeCarb)

Moderate Calcium Foods
35g fetta cheese (124mg)
1 medium sized egg (120mg)
1 tablespoon of Parmesan cheese (110mg)
1 dozen oysters or scallops (105mg)
½ cup of stewed rhubarb (100mg)
1 cup baked beans (100mg) (get black soy beans in can, very LC)
½ cup of spinach or silverbeet (95mg)


Meat/Protein Group
3 oz. sardines with bones
2 oz. tofu


The following foods are fair to good sources of calcium.

Vegetable Group
1/2 cup broccoli 47 mg.
1/2 cup cooked kale 90 mg.
1/2 cup cooked spinach 123 mg.
1/2 cup turnip greens 125 mg.

Beans and Nuts
1/2 cup garbanzo beans 38 mg.
1/2 cup cooked soybeans 130 mg. (green)
1/2 cup cooked soybeans 86 mg.
1/2 cup kidney beans 35 mg. (cooked)
1/3 cup almonds 126 mg. (dry roasted-whole)
9 brazil nuts 54 mg.

Fruit Group
1 orange 52 mg.

Soy Milks (look for unsweetened, or even better soy slender. Soy slender tastes like regular milk, but is splenda sweetened and has 5 carb with 4 fiber for 1 net carb.)

Thank-you LadyBelle! Your post was very helpful. I do not have the kids on strict induction. I have modified my Atkins a bit for them-and figure its a bit like OWL or, more likely, CAD. They eat lowcarb for breakfast, lunch and snacks, and eat a "normal" dinner. I not only want them to lose a bit of weight, but want to improve my 9 yo's concentration. I have also cut out the playstation on all but weekend afternoons. I have already noticed a huge difference in Zach's mood for the better. My eldest, James, is 11 and dropped two pounds. Zach's lost one. Slow and steady is fine by me-they are growing kids. I just want to prevent them from growing wider than they are tall!

You know when I think about it my mom had me on a "diet" my whole life. I was very healthy until I got my own money and started buying junk food and fast foods.

My mom just provided healthy foods and good balence and no ho-ho's ding dongs or chips or pop.
we drank only 1 glass of milk a day and have nice strong bones, we also ate cottage cheese, cheese, yogurt and spiniach and greens.

I think you are doing a great job and providing a good example for healthy eating that will help them out for life. I also think that low carb calcium sources will be fine. if they are eating a "normal" dinner maybe a glass of milk with that.

Good Luck lets us know how they are doing and feeling

My kids are more on maintainance levels of low carb at this point and I don't "limit" milk per se. They usually have some with breakfast, lunch and dinner, but not huge glasses...more like 6 ounces each. In between meals they can have water or Kool-aid made with Splenda...I usually steer them towards water and they're gradually getting the idea that water is what you drink when you're thirsty (not pop, Kool-Aid or milk). They also eat yogurt, cheese and broccoli so they are getting plenty of calcium from those sources as well.
I don't think it's necessary to put growing children on induction levels of carbs. In fact, I really wouldn't recommend it. Since kids generally are more active, are still growing and usually have higher metabolisms than adults, most would probably lose well on maintainance levels of low carb.
I'm in the position at the moment of trying to keep my oldest (almost 9) from losing any more weight. Between our changing eating habits and her starting Concerta (a timed release version of Ritalin) last January, she's gone from 90 pounds down to 71 pounds since then and her pediatrician is having a fit! 19 pounds is a lot for an 8 year old to lose in 6 months and she's seriously concerned that it is going to start affecting her growth. This is a factor for all kids who are still growing; you don't want them to lose too quickly or it could affect their growth. That's probably why Dr. Atkins didn't recommend strict low carb for children under the age of 12. Since the Concerta kills her appetite and I can't get her to eat more, I'm having to try to make whatever she eats count both calorie-wise and nutrition wise; full-fat yogurt, full-fat sugar-free ice cream (homemade), higher fat meats and cheeses, and a higher (not high!) level of carbs from fruits, veggies and whole grains. I could get her to gain weight again quickly by letting her go back to eating junk food, but I'm not willing to go there.
Be careful with trying to get children under the age of 12 to lose weight; slower is far better in those cases (like maybe a few pounds a month!). What my pediatrician was actually recommending even when my daughter was 15 pounds overweight was to try and hold her weight where it was while her height caught up, not having her lose (growth issues again).

Judging from the meals you posted in your journal for your kids, they should be getting all the calcium they need from the meat and veggies you are feeding them. Biologically available calcium should be the real concern, not how much gross calcium a food contains. The calcium in (cow's) milk is less biologically available than that in meat, fish, and most vegetables, from what I have read, at least. Goat milk is apparently much more digestible, but is too expensive, and has a wierd flavor. Nothing wrong with Bacon and Eggs, either! You might try making some moderate carb bread with a bread machine (!$35-40 at Wal-Mart), and using it in tuna fish, sweet relish, and Miracle Whip sandwiches (yeh I know, there is SOME sugar involved, but the amount per sandwich is relatively low (7g total, assuming a tablespoon of each--5g for the relish, 2g for the Miracle Whip), especially considering the benefit gained. And in case anyone wants to know, having tried several brands, including store brands, IMHO, the best-tasting tuna-in-soybean-oil, ~$0.50/can cheap stuff, is Bumble Bee, by far.

For every fat kid that loses it as they grow taller, there is at least 1 that doesn't, like me, and presumably like you, judging from your first posts on the forum. If that is the case, then there is a 50% chance that the same genetics are involved with your kids as were involved with you. If I had known the hell I would go through all my life for being fat, and had my parents known of the Atkins solution when I was a teenager, I would have hated and reviled them for NOT doing something about it when they could have. Actually they DID try, but in my case, exercise alone was insufficient--unlike my 3 brothers, I LOVED Pasta to the exclusion of all else, when possible. In those days, this was considered healthy and normal. I don't believe being put on diets, per se, while growing up would cause an eating disorder (the justification used by liz175 for her tirade against trying Atkins on your kids)--the attitudes of the parents, and other unmentioned factors have much greater impact. When kids are surrounded by healthy food (the only food in the house!) and allowed to choose what they want, they will eat healthy. They are perhaps more in tune with their bodies' needs than adults.

Thank-you Lisa N and Azraelle.
I posted a few menus for the boys and stopped to avoid another tirade. I'm glad you think they are doing ok. Life has gotten much easier around the house only making one meal at a time. Last night they had pork chops simmered in tomatoes and green chilis over a bed of fresh spinach and sprinkled with a shredded Italian cheese mix. They loved dinner and didn't complain at the lack of sides. They had no-sugar added icecream bars from Lucerne and couldn't tell the difference. James is happy he's losing-and started using light weights on my bench and sit-ups. Zach is just happy he's dropped a pound and a half-it's really helped his self-esteem. Kids are hard on the fat kids-its just a sad reality. My brother was a fat kid and is an even fatter adult. The rest of the family has been obese at one time or another. We have heart disease that follows the men in my family. Why take the chance with my sons?

What is a typical day of eating for your children. My son is 11 and overweight by 10-15lbs. I want to lower his carbs starting with McDonalds and pizza, get the picture.

It was so easy and convienent to pick it up after a hard days work. I am helping him do this to himself. I want to change his eating habits but need some meal ideas.

Thanks for the help.

Why not just get him hooked on Mickey D's sliced grilled chicken salads--they're a heck of alot more healthy than a greaseburger, at least from Atkins perspective, and they come with a generous packet of Newman's Own (I prefer his Caesar dressing myself).

Well, I can't vouch for what they eat at school when I'm not looking, but a typical day's menu looks like this:

Breakfast: Milk and toast with peanut butter (light wheat bread) or yogurt, oatmeal, fried eggs

Lunch: milk, 1 slice sandwich usually with peanut butter and sugar-free jam, fruit (apples, oranges, pears, sometimes bananas, etc...), gogurt, cheese stick, baby carrots and ranch dressing dip

After school snack: Fruit, yogurt, cheese sticks, peanut butter crackers, cheese and crackers, occasionally popcorn or 1 homemade cookie

Dinner: veggie with butter or cheese sauce (broccoli, spinach, green beans, cauliflower, salad with ranch dressing, california blend or some similar veggie), meat, milk

Dessert: Sugar-free ice cream, sugar-free pudding (sometimes over fresh fruit), sugar-free jello with berries in it and topped with whipped cream

Occasional foods: 1 cookie on cookie day at school, 1 bag of popcorn on popcorn day at school, 1 slice of pizza on pizza day at school, regular ice cream after school on Fridays. 1 bag of regular (kid-type) cereal per month; their choice, occasional bagels for breakfast or rolls with dinner. Spaghetti with garlic bread once in a while or spaghettios, hot dogs (with a bun), birthday treats at school

They get to order whatever they want when we eat out (usually once every 2 weeks) and eat whatever they want on holidays and once in a while I will make them a higher carb treat such as banana bread or homemade cookies or make homemade pizza at home for them.

How in the heck ar eyou guys getting your kids to eat veggies!! wahhhhhh!.

I can sneak my son an egg roll, or put spinich on pizza, but other then that if it's green, he's not touching it. (He's 4 btw)

The baby is easy. You put it on a spoon and shovel....

Sorry, although my son actually LIKES salad, I know of not a single instance in captivity where a kid will want a salad when there are Happy Meals to be had!

I think there's absolutely NO harm in limiting refined flours and sugar from kids' diets. My son doesn't notice the difference in the sugarfree ice cream he gets, I give him "light" bread..I can even get away with making low-carb pasta, since he's SO fond of anything I call "casserole" or "hotdish" I don't even think he CARES!

I try not to make a federal case out of having cookies in the house, since it's the forbidden things that taste SO much sweeter...aren't we all a bit that way! I just make sure it's not the kind I like..I'm only human....

Milk really IS just one source of calcium. Especially if the kids take a supplement, or even better, get it from natural sources like your boys are, Janenne, I'm sure it'll be fine! I know WAY too many parents who don't care what their kids eat, and THAT'S sad. I'm glad you're making the effort for them, BEFORE they have to go through years of teasing and medical problems.

The kids are doing fine. James barely has flab on his torso-and looks fine everywhere else. I can't see he's overweight unless he wears a tight shirt or is in his skivies. Zach has lost his full chin and his face isn't as round. He doesn't have to suck his gut in anymore to close his older pants either. I've seen a remarkable difference in such a short time for just a few pounds lost.

Typical Breakfast: eggs, assorted breakfast meat

Typical lunch: Hot dish-left overs or cooked up while making breakfast-over spinach, with assorted fresh veggie or fruit, cheese stick, cocktail pepperoni, one sf candy for desert and milk or sf koolaid. Water.

Typical dinner-nothing's typical anymore! We have more menu variety than ever in our Carb-ful days.

The boys get to eat what they want on weekends, but I don't buy crap. If they want it-they buy it with their allowance. Dinners three times a week with grandma are a food fest too. James is pretty good about sticking to the plan, but then he's older and better understands the plan. Either way, they'll both look better by Christmas. I'm sooo glad they decided to jump on the bandwagon. Neither one has wanted to quit yet.