It's pretty hard to follow 2 plans (Body-for-Life and CKD) when you haven't read either one of the books (probably not available here).

As said before my schedule is:
Mon-morning: upper body BFL style (45 mns)
Tues-morning: swimming (now regular, later aquarobics at night, 45 mins)
Wed morning: lower body BFL style and spinning lesson (both 45 mins)
Thursday: rest (I could go for a swim though, if I join the aquarobics class)
Friday morning: upper body BFL style (45mins)
Saturday morning: spinning lesson (45 mins) and perhaps some auxiliary weight training (abs??)
Sunday: rest
As many of you know, upper/lower body work is switched around for week 2: lower on mon-fri and upper on wed.

Hmmm I have little choice in the times when the spinning lessons are given, so one of the lessons coincide with my weight training days. I have given it some thought and decided to do that weight training session it after all. Even though I did leg works on Wednesday, I felt only lousy for the first 10-15 mins of the lesson, mostly because I was sore and dehydrated (drank a full liter of water) as well as hadn't found the proper seat position.

After the lesson I felt great.. I've also read that it works out better to do weight lifting BEFORE cardio if you must combine the 2 of them..

Now the big question is: when to start the carboloading? the best time seems to be after the visit to the gym on Saturday. I could do another workout after the spinning lesson to make sure that I'm properly depleted, but how much should I do, given that I've either done legwork the day before or upperbody work (as I do tomorrow).

I could try a few exercises that I haven't tried before with low weights and high reps to get proper form and do some extra ab work to feed the masochist in myself.
When I really really push myself that lesson, it shouldn't be too hard to get depleted by just a cardio training..

But how do you know you're properly depleted?

I also need to cycle 14 km home (some 45-50 mins).. I'lll need to take my carb-up meal with me.. was thinking about rice pudding. A good idea??

Fietser, puzzled in the Netherlands

Jalilah seemed to have problems with fitting the depletion workout in with BFL lifting.

Are you going to carb load for one day or two?

If only one day then Friday would be the best day. On weeks when friday is upper body you would have to add in lower body exercises then the following week add in upper body. You need to exercies your entire body prior to carb load.

If you plan to do two day carb load you coudl do it friday but i dont know how the spinning class would affect it. Another option is to do a full body circuit workout after the spinning class then carb load until sunday night.

good luck figuring it out.

Well, the trouble is just that I have read up on CKD for the past 2 weeks on the web exclusively and hence am unable to look up sections that I forgot or haven't read about yet. Same for BFL. I've heard about BFL on another low-carb discussion list, but that was mild low-carbing, which didn't prevent me from bingeing on carbs. Apparently that wasn't enough. A friend then suggested the CKD diet as she had started an ABCDE program..

I have read on a website that for people who have more than 20% body fat (mine is 36%) a carb up day once every 7-10 days was enough with the duration of 24-36 hours. I'm going for 24 hours..
It seems best to do it right after the Saturday spinning session as I've described that I'm willing to do another workout AFTER the spinning session. Plus, I am working out in the MORNING and not at night!
So, carb up from Saturday 12 am till Sunday 12 am.

Fietser

Depending your the fatloss you want, you might wanna try to carb up only once a week.

Swimming is very good to deplete liver glycogen, i add read a article on it once last year.

I can try to help you, i have read BFL, and have BodyOpus at home, right now has you know i am doing BodyOpus, my progress has been quit good so far.

I will start the week on Sunday:

Sunday would be the day that you go back low carb, i would try to do aerobics in the morning on an empty stomach so you will burn the glycogen from your carb up , ( this was one of my mistakes and might have prevented me from getting into ketosis faster, so aerobics are important right after your carb up is over).

Monday would be a weight training day:

Chest try with 6 sets
back 6 sets
biceps 4 sets

Tuesday is another weight training day

Legs 6-8 sets
delts 4 sets
triceps 4 sets

You should rest about a minute and a half between each set, try to lift a weight that you can handle for around 10-12 reps and be sure to do it slowly,, ( the better your forms will be, the better your muscle fibers will be exausted and the better shape you will have, Thrust me on that i have been an artist at sloppy forms lifting way to heavy and it didnt do nothing for me.)

If everything is going to plan you should be in ketosis Tuesday.

After that try to add some cardio, the plan you outlined and the cardio you do seems to be very good.

Friday would be another weight trainig workout wish you would do giant sets

one exercice per body part resting one minute between sets and doing a loop, try to get 5 loops in.

SO you would be doing:

leg press 1 X 20-25 reps
bench press 1 X 20
lat pulldown 1 X 20
db press 1 X 20
bb curls 1 X 20
triceps pushdown 1 X 20

like i said rest 1 minute between each set and after completion of all the exercices go true the loop again, try to complete 5 times.

After that workout you should start your carb up, ( personal note here, i usually dont start my carb up until Saturday morning, but if you wanna do it right you can start right after this workout.) You muscles will be screaming for fuel after that, you can basically eat whatever you like Friday night ( this is the part of the diet i like best you can just let yourself go and eat almost everything you like, exept fruits because they contain fructose, well anything with fructose in it for that matter, this will get your liver full and you will have problems getting back into ketosis afterward.)

Saturday your choice of carbs has to be better, so you can go with rice, bread , pasta and all the good whole carbs.

I stop my carb up around 9pm on Saturday, and usually i have no problem getting into ketosis by Tuesday.

Personal notes: i cut all sweetners, dairy product ( they make me bloated and make me feel very bad Lactose), cut out all diet sodas and mouthwash ( this has sorbitol in it wish can kick you out of ketosis.)

This might not affect you or it might so you will have to test what works for you and what doesnt, my girlfriend has no problem with diet sodas, and sweetners, on the other hand i get kicked out of ketosis if i take theses products.

I think that i have covered about everything here, if you decide to take a fatburner take it from Monday til Friday and take 2 days off, on weekends.

Also you never train on Saturday because you are carbing up.

I hope this answers your question.

Good luck

actually depending on what time the spinning class is you may want to do your weight lifting before the spinning. But that might just be a matter of personal preference.

If you are doing 24 hours then starting the carb load on saturday seems like a good idea, you will be pretty well depleted if you do a spinning class and weight training.

For CKD working out on Mon, Tues & Fri seems best, but for BFL I need to workout on Mon, Wed & Frid. I want to give all of them my utmost attention, though obviously results will be best on Monday.
The schedule realdeal gave to me for depletion sounds good.. hope I can do most of it as the gym closes 12 am on Saturday, no wait on 1400 (in week days they are open 9-12 and 16-22hr).

Doing weight lifting on Wednesday before the spinning lesson worked out very well. But on Saturday I want to do that depletion work out, and the spinning will have tired me already, so that I won't need a whole lot of weight lifting to complete the depletion..
The suggested routine will work what?


leg press 1 X 20-25 reps (QUADS)
bench press 1 X 20 (CHEST)
lat pulldown 1 X 20 (BACK)
db press 1 X 20 is this like the Arnold press I'm doing, a bit like throwing up your arms after a victory, but now with clenched fist in which there's a db? (SHOULDER?)

bb curls 1 X 20 (db curls seem a better idea, I'm weak!: BICEPS)
triceps pushdown 1 X 20 (TRICEPS, have to look up that one, I'm doing triceps extension tomorrow plus the triceps db kickback.

The routine realdeal suggests is very much BFL style, I was hoping to try out a few new things at ease.. should do that tomorrow then!

Fietser

The spinning class will sufficiently deplete local glycogen stores from your lower body ... so you will need to hit your upper body after spinning to deplete those stores of glycogen.

An upper body circuit would work best for you. Chest press, pullovers, rows or pulldowns, biceps curls, triceps dips.

And I agree with Big Dog that the weights should be first if at all possible.

OK, but I am a bit wary of doing upper body workouts 2 days in a row.. In BFL style I do
mon upper
wed lower, spinning = lower
fri upper
sat spinning = lower, depletion work out = ?
mon lower
wed upper, spinning = lower
fri lower
sat spinning = lower, depletion workout = ?

I can do lower body wo 2 days in a row with no ill effects, though I have to be careful with my foot (skipping rope & lugging a loaded bike didn't heal it). Worse is that I have RSI in neck & shoulders since 1994, so I have to be really careful with exercises.. a rowing session in BFL style f*cked it up even more as you Americans tend to say. Or rather, the right shoulder hurts almost all the time because of my Internet habits. So, 2 days in a row seemed like asking for trouble? That's why I thought about the abs & back exercises as an alternative... like back extensions (normal and sideways) and the ab machine/incline bench for upper& lower/oblique ab exercises.

Anyone with comments?

You will have to count calories on the CKD to, i weight around 200 pounds right now so i eat around 2000 calories, i spread them into about 4-5 meals.

Your gonna be eating more fat then protein wish yells 9 calories a grams so this is why i am not eating 6 meals a day.

You might wanna check your body temperture make sure that its stready each day, around 97 degree. If you thyroid slows down its not gonna help you much to burn fat.

I have found that using a thermogenic fatburner really helps me shed a bit more fat when i am in ketosis.

Consider carbing up only once a week if you wanna lose a lot of fat or like me this week if you entered ketosis late in the week.

Like i said i strated writting my journal in the R-S group , i will detail my workouts and cardio work, supplement that i have tried , what has work and what didnt.

I guess that with all of this you should be good to have a great start.

For the record i have bought BodyOpus, the book is very detailed but kinda outdated, it spends lot of time talking about drugs to speed thyroid and steroids, wish for me didnt mean nothing and i tought that this was space wasted in the book.

If you plan to buy a book then you should check into Lyle Mcdonald The Ketogenic Diet, Bodyopus is a lot more for the comptetitive bodybuilder ( steroid type), but Lyle book would be better for use normal none using drug dieters.

I hear a lot of mention of carb-ups just as a necessity as a magical kickstart to get your metabolism back in check and I saw a couple of posts involving Leptin, but I really think those two things need to be tied together. If your bodyfat percentage is relatively high 20-25% and higher, your fat stores are producing more leptin than people with lower bodyfat percentage, you do not need to carb up as often or as long when your bodyfat percentage is that high. It is only when you start losing bodyfat that you have to consider making carb-ups more frequent, and lasting for a longer time.

The reason high-gi carbs at least at the beginning of a carb-up are ideal is because leptin is affected and responds much better to high-gi carbs than it responds to starches. Also leptin does not ONLY respond to carbohydrates, it responds to an increase in overall calories and fat storage, it is just that the quickest way to get there is with high gi carbs, and since you can fill once glycogen store with 4 grams of water, you're gaining water weight mainly and not fat, which can be quickly depleted by intense work-outs and returning to a low-carb diet after the carb-up, with the added benefit of the increase in leptin which tells your body that it is being well fed and basically makes fat more readily available for use as energy instead of trying to hold on to it.

Unfortunately when the intellectual bodybuilder community explains these things they like to do it in a way that most people can't understand, so people know it works but really not why.

Bottom line, the leaner you get the more often you need to carb-up, some body builders with very low BF percentage carb-up every other day.

There is a real promising supplement coming out by avant labs called leptigen that is supposed to tell your body it is being well fed thus allowing you to continue low-carbing without the carb-up and other benefits of increased leptin.



Lep