Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Nutrition & Supplements
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Fri, May-16-14, 09:27
ID4 ID4 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 58
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 158/150/150 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Vitamin D makes me sick

Hope you love my inflammatory title

I am a dark-skinned individual, I do not get an adequate amount of sleep (I probably need 8 hours nightly and consistently get 6.5 to 7.75 hours). I have a bottle of 5000IU Vitamin D3 capsules. So far, I've had the flu twice in my life. Once when I was outside a lot, and partying hard, I got a sinus infection that turned into the flu.

The second time I was taking 5000IU of D3 each day. Again, I was not getting enough rest. I want to point out that 5 days into the flu, I started taking 20000IU of D3 a day, and was normal by the third or fourth day. I was also taking iodine at the time.

All that said, when I wasn't taking D3, I wasn't getting sick. Like not so much as a cold. That's why I am starting this thread. I'm hoping to hear from the other D3 'experimenters.'

A note on sleep. I am not mentioning this so all the supporters can just say "well he wasn't getting enough rest" which is obvious and clearly a common thread here. The important thing I want to mention is that I personally observed the combination before an illness.

My third story. I started to get 'gung ho' about D3 again earlier this year, and took probably 20000IU a day for a week, then started back on taking 5000IU a day after that, but I clearly noticed I started getting a sore throat, a few days in. It would happen during the day and clear up by the evening (I took my D3 in the morning) but after some time wasn't clearing up in the evenings.

I started sneezing and coughing and my cough got worse and worse -- the infection moved from my nose and throat into my lungs, and I thought I was going to get the flu.

Again, I was not getting adequate sleep. This time I suspected the D3, so I stopped taking it. A few days passed and I kept getting worse, so I took a day off from work and slept in. By the next evening I was 100%. So in every instance here, I was not sleeping as much as I should have. But the common thread in every instance was high D3, and inadequate sleep.

Probably either what a proponent of it would call normal...but I have to really question this, because I got sick at this time...and I could have instead, not gotten sick at all. I find that pretty interesting.

I'd like to get your opinions on this.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Fri, May-16-14, 09:53
s-piper s-piper is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 694
 
Plan: LC Primal
Stats: 290/270/160 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 15%
Default

Well I haven't heard that cold-like symptoms are associated with hypervitaminosis D, but I will say that 20,000 IU a day is a lot.
The upper limit recommended is 10,000.

I've never gone above 10,000 IU in supplements. However, there are times when I'm either sick or trying to not get sick that I've gone up to 10,000 IU supplements, and had positive effects...a cold kept more subclinical or shortened time of illness.
I don't take that daily when I'm feeling fine, though, because frankly I'm too lazy.

As for your story about getting a sinus infection and the flu, I'm sure that had more to do with partying than being outside...or just a coincidence. I don't think it's possible to get vitamin D toxicity from sun exposure, the body has feedback mechanisms that regulate endogenous vitamin D production.

Last edited by s-piper : Fri, May-16-14 at 09:58.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Fri, May-16-14, 10:03
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,842
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

If you're going to take enormous doses of of D3 then you should get your D3 tested. 20,000 IU is a really huge dose.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sat, May-17-14, 14:45
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

An overdose of vitamin D can be toxic, but usually at doses of twice or more what you are taking. However, you may be sensitive to it. There is no reason, that I know of, to take large doses of any vitamin, and especially of fat-soluble vitamins.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sun, May-18-14, 19:44
KDH's Avatar
KDH KDH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,247
 
Plan: Atkins/Taubes
Stats: 270/168/160 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Dallas, TX
Default

A sinus infection is bacterial. Influenza is viral. I'm not sure how the two could be related, unless your weakened immune system allowed the second and completely unrelated sickness in?

Correlation is not causation. I have never broken a bone. Doesn't mean that if I break one next Tuesday, Tuesdays cause broken bones. Do you eat enough fat for your body to use all the D you take? Do you also summlement with k? And honestly, why on earth did you feel it necessary to megadose like that? I'm honestly just curious.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Mon, May-19-14, 09:18
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDH
Correlation is not causation. I have never broken a bone. Doesn't mean that if I break one next Tuesday, Tuesdays cause broken bones.


I use the same illustration to show that past events do not necessarily predict future events. I've never broken a bone. That doesn't mean I never will.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Mon, May-19-14, 20:56
CMCM's Avatar
CMCM CMCM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,264
 
Plan: Keto / Atkins VLC
Stats: 173/148.6/135 Female 5'6"
BF:23.9
Progress: 64%
Location: N. Calif. Sierra Nevadas
Default

A year or two ago my husband tested severely deficient in Vit. D, and his doctor gave him a prescription of pills that were 50,000 mg. I was shocked at the amount, but it took maybe a month of that (daily) to build his levels back up, at which time he lowered the amount he now takes to 1,000 mg. per day. Even at the high rate, nothing bad happened.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 03:21
jaywood jaywood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 513
 
Plan: the FightDoctors plan
Stats: 215/171/165 Male 177 cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: Scotland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCM
A year or two ago my husband tested severely deficient in Vit. D, and his doctor gave him a prescription of pills that were 50,000 mg. I was shocked at the amount, but it took maybe a month of that (daily) to build his levels back up, at which time he lowered the amount he now takes to 1,000 mg. per day. Even at the high rate, nothing bad happened.


Please tell me that is IU's not mg's as that would be 50 g which is really huge dose!

I have never heard of anyone with your side effects taking vit D. even at that dose. 20,000 IU is still a tiny physical amount of tablet, so the gut should not have any issues with the excess, which makes the DandV side effects quite rare as well.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 10:04
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,842
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

That 50,000 iu pill was probably D2, not D3. D2 doesn't convert well to the usable form (D2) so giving large doses is necessary. Even really large doses don't work all that well (of D2). The only prescription form of D is D2, so that's most likely what it was.

A shame since taking 10,000 iu of d3 probably would've been far cheaper and even more effective.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 11:26
ID4 ID4 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 58
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 158/150/150 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

I do not know why people are focusing on the D3 dosage. Please read carefully. Each time I mention taking 20K IU, it is only for a matter of days. Note the number of days here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ID4
I want to point out that 5 days into the flu, I started taking 20000IU of D3 a day, and was normal by the third or fourth day.
Note the bold part below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ID4
I started to get 'gung ho' about D3 again earlier this year, and took probably 20000IU a day for a week, then started back on taking 5000IU a day after that ...
I don't see a problem with anything above. I have support from the article below, too. See the quote below. If you want more background on this, you can read the article (here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Miller (full article on lewrockwell.com)
Concerns about vitamin D toxicity are overblown, along with those about sun exposure. As one researcher in the field puts it, "Worrying about vitamin D toxicity is like worrying about drowning when you’re dying of thirst." The LD50 of vitamin D in dogs (the dose that will kill half the animals) is 3,520,000 IU/kilogram. One can take a 10,000 IU vitamin D supplement every day, month after month safely, with no evidence of adverse effect. (Am J Clin Nutr 1999;69:842–856). A person must consume 50,000 IU a day for several months before hypercalcemia (an elevated calcium level in the blood, which is the initial manifestation of vitamin D toxicity) might occur. Vitamin D in a physiologic dose (5,000 IU/day) prevents the build up of calcium in blood vessels. (Circulation 1997;96:1755–1760). If one takes 10,000 IU of vitamin D a day and spends a lot of time in the sun, it would be prudent to check vitamin D blood level to ensure that it does not exceed 100 ng/ml.
Now to your post, KDH...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDH
A sinus infection is bacterial. Influenza is viral. I'm not sure how the two could be related, unless your weakened immune system allowed the second and completely unrelated sickness in?

Correlation is not causation. I have never broken a bone. Doesn't mean that if I break one next Tuesday, Tuesdays cause broken bones. Do you eat enough fat for your body to use all the D you take? Do you also summlement with k? And honestly, why on earth did you feel it necessary to megadose like that? I'm honestly just curious.
As far as I am concerned, a cold and all its symptoms, are any, all, or a combination of the following: Stuffy or runny nose, sneezing, cough, itchy or sore or irritated throat.

What causes these?

To your 'Tuesday' analogy...If you've never broken a bone, you've lived through hundreds, maybe thousands, of uneventful Tuesdays. To then link a random event (breaking a bone) with a non-random event (a Tuesday) that you've never linked anything else with before, is highly illogical. What would be the link between the two? Even worse to assume that one (Tuesday) causes the other (a bone to break). With no link we can make between the day of the week and a bone breaking, we look ridiculous. If you're going to try to make an analogy of something ridiculous, at least go to the effort of making one up that fits what you are trying to compare it to.

On the other hand, linking non-random events, makes sense.
1-being sleep deprived while supplementing D3 and
2-experiencing cold and/or flu symptoms after-the-fact

It makes even more sense when they happen together more than once, in the same order, which is what I've laid out here. So there is more to the correlation. If you were trying to suggest the association I made between taking D3 and getting sick was illogical, you need proof. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were indeed curious.

There is a cause-effect relationship, and no, there may not be any proof, but if you get the tone of my post, I think you can see I'm putting out my experience and asking everyone else for their thoughts/feedback. I'm not going on a rant about how D3 is harmful or claiming that I have special biology or whatever.

So maybe you can tell me what causes 'common cold' symptoms if you don't think the 'cold' and the flu are related. And we can just drop the 'sinus infection' name because it's not important. I wrote 'sinus infection' but meant the list of symptoms above. So to you, KDH...
1-What causes a 'common cold?' Is it the same as what causes the flu?
2-Why does K supplementation matter?
3-Why does fat content matter?
I actually was on a fairly high fat diet the third time I got sick.

Dr. Miller also has other information about D3 in this article about the flu.

If you don't agree with my link between taking D3 and being sick, well, please add some proof to the mix or point out a flaw in any logic I used. Otherwise hopefully we are all on the same page. If you disagree with my methods, now you have a source. Dr. Miller also cites sources so you can look at those as well.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 12:17
Sereen Sereen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,632
 
Plan: Zero
Stats: 95/95/95 Female 50
BF:0
Progress: 36%
Default

It appears to me that a lot of people have expressed concern for your well-being based upon the information they understand about Vitamin D. Your last post seems somewhat unnecessarily confrontational when people have tried to engage you thoughtfully.

Hopefully this study that I found for you might help in some way:
http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Improve...tion+in+Finland

Please note the portions about Vitamin D and respiratory tract infections. It seems to intimate that the Vitamin D causes changes with the mucous membrane linings, so perhaps you have triggered a 'war' each time you begin taking large amounts of Vit D. Our normal floras of both sinus and gut bacterias can be altered significantly with ongoing/latent organisms like yeast and/or even resistant bacterias. Methycillin-resistant staph aureous, for example, does reside in nostrils/nasal passages. I suppose that this secosteroid could/would/might also effect the mucousal linings of the stomach/intestines as well.
Perhaps a culture might be in order next time you experience such issues.

If this post has nothing you can use, do forgive me, and please feel free to disregard it altogether.

Last edited by Sereen : Tue, May-20-14 at 12:19. Reason: added a word for clarity
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 12:40
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,842
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

The nature of the internet is that when you ask for opinions, you get them. Right or wrong, you get opinions. If you don't feel they are valid then ignore them. I don't think you'll find any scientists here doing studies on the subject, so you might well be better informed than most of us.

I can answer a few things:

Influenza ("The Flu") is caused by the influenza virus.
Common colds are caused by rhinovirus.
Vit K ensures that calcium is deposited into bones, not arteries.
D3 needs to be taken with fat. It is a "fat soluble" vitamin. You can Google that for more info.

vitamindcouncil.org is a good source for info about D3.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Tue, May-20-14 at 12:47.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Tue, May-20-14, 12:54
KDH's Avatar
KDH KDH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,247
 
Plan: Atkins/Taubes
Stats: 270/168/160 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Dallas, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ID4
So to you, KDH...
1-What causes a 'common cold?' Is it the same as what causes the flu?
2-Why does K supplementation matter?
3-Why does fat content matter?


Well, gosh, why ask me? For that matter, why are you even posting? You obviously already have all the answers, so the only mystery here would be your reasons for soliciting others opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Wed, May-21-14, 13:52
ID4 ID4 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 58
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 158/150/150 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereen
It appears to me that a lot of people have expressed concern for your well-being based upon the information they understand about Vitamin D. Your last post seems somewhat unnecessarily confrontational when people have tried to engage you thoughtfully.

You could maaaybe say I overclarified, but I clarified and since there's not really a cause for concern hopefully we're all on the same page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDH
Well, gosh, why ask me? For that matter, why are you even posting? You obviously already have all the answers, so the only mystery here would be your reasons for soliciting others opinions.

LOL, you're funny. Why would someone with all the answers be asking questions to you?

In your earlier post you said you were honestly curious...I took the time to clarify and give you the source that informed my thinking, and got this ...

I asked you to clarify your position and this is what your response is ... interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereen
Hopefully this study that I found for you might help in some way:
http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Improve...tion+in+Finland

Please note the portions about Vitamin D and respiratory tract infections. It seems to intimate that the Vitamin D causes changes with the mucous membrane linings, so perhaps you have triggered a 'war' each time you begin taking large amounts of Vit D. Our normal floras of both sinus and gut bacterias can be altered significantly with ongoing/latent organisms like yeast and/or even resistant bacterias. Methycillin-resistant staph aureous, for example, does reside in nostrils/nasal passages. I suppose that this secosteroid could/would/might also effect the mucousal linings of the stomach/intestines as well.
Perhaps a culture might be in order next time you experience such issues.

If this post has nothing you can use, do forgive me, and please feel free to disregard it altogether.


I will take a look, thanks for sharing.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, May-21-14, 13:59
ID4 ID4 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 58
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 158/150/150 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
The nature of the internet is that when you ask for opinions, you get them. Right or wrong, you get opinions. If you don't feel they are valid then ignore them. I don't think you'll find any scientists here doing studies on the subject, so you might well be better informed than most of us.

I can answer a few things:

Influenza ("The Flu") is caused by the influenza virus.
Common colds are caused by rhinovirus.
Vit K ensures that calcium is deposited into bones, not arteries.
D3 needs to be taken with fat. It is a "fat soluble" vitamin. You can Google that for more info.

vitamindcouncil.org is a good source for info about D3.


Thanks Nancy, we don't always agree but really appreciate you answering my questions, this is very helpful. More often than not even when we don't agree completely you still give me something useful to think about.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:01.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.