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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Nov-08-15, 15:59
Whited Whited is offline
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Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default Blood pressure question / potassium

Hi. Dennis here -- I've been on the LC way of eating for almost a year. My blood pressure dropped to almost almost normal during the summer. (12Os usually over mid 80s -- most times around 80). It has now risen back up there thes last few months (this morning it was 150/100 -- not long after I arose. It went down during the day but not a lot -- upper 140s by upper 80s or 90s) To be fair I wasn't working this summer so it could possible be work related (teacher).

Anyway I noticed on my last blood tests my potassium was flagged as low (3.4 -- the scale is 3.5 to 5.1 mmol/L). The last two blood tests it was 3.8.

I have taken potassium for many months (I am taking Nature Made Potassium Glutonate 550 mg 2X daily and I upped it this last month by adding an additional 1/2 pill per day (225mg).

As for blood pressure some years ago I was on Lisiniprill but it did nothing. The doctor gave me free samples of Edarbyclar which worked (perhaps too good) but after 1 year and 1/2 the free samples ran out and the cost was sky high so I dropped it. Also after getting diagnosed with diabetes last year I read Edarbyclar tends to raise blood sugars (that's the same year I developed diabetes). My blood pressure seemed to be doing steadily better after starting low carb -- raising significantly only at the doctor during an operation. last march it was 145 over 80 and the doctor wanted to put me on medications then. Like I said during the summer it was just about normal usually 124or 125 over 80.

I would really like to get the blood pressure down naturally as even the dentist balks at working on you now with elevated BP and I have white coat hypertension with the dentist so even a cleaning might be refused. I'd like to avoid medicine if possible (doctors throw out medications nonschalantly -- I would hate to get one that raised blood sugars again) but for a LC eater and diabetic the problem is that most high potassium foods are high sugar.

However people kind of freak about potassium supplements being really dangerous if you take too many.

So what are your experiences? What do you all think about the potassium I'm taking? Also any suggestions about blood pressure lowering foods? Any other ideas or observations? I have slacked off excercising the last couple of months-- could that affect BP so much?


Thanks for any help in this

Dennis

Last edited by Whited : Sun, Nov-08-15 at 16:07.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Nov-08-15, 21:00
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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Progress: 76%
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My blood pressure was high for years. I did not tolerate potassium at all but I hope someone can chime in for you about it.

What I *think* lowered mine to 120/80 after being 130-140/90 for about 8 years was giving up caffeine (coffee, basically). I was surprised at how dramatic the effect was.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Nov-08-15, 21:53
Whited Whited is offline
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Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
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Actually the potassium is 55mg glutonate which works out to really 99mg 2X daily.

I have been using green tea every other day for intermitttant fasting -- maybe thats part of it. it does contain caffiene
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Nov-08-15, 22:52
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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Progress: 76%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whited
Actually the potassium is 55mg glutonate which works out to really 99mg 2X daily.

I have been using green tea every other day for intermitttant fasting -- maybe thats part of it. it does contain caffiene



You could try giving it up and see what happens. Remember other sources, too, like chocolate. I don't eat any chocolate, either.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 03:17
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Is it possible that you can learn some biofeedback techniques to deal with seeing white coats? It's not like your dentist will be taking your BP when you walk into the office.

Learning to meditate your way out of hyper reactivity has the added bonus that it could lower, at least a bit, your pressure overall.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 09:03
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Caffeine really raises my BP too. Avoid it before going to see the doctor. Take your BP at home and show your MD that your blood pressure is normal most of the time and show him your log. Mine don't prescribe meds if you've got a touch of white coat syndrome.

BTW: Most nurses (and doctors) are really bad about taking blood pressure correctly. If they hurry you into it, don't let you sit for a while, don't support your arm properly, don't have it raised to the right height, it can mess up the reading. They also shouldn't be chatting away when they do it and you shouldn't be talking.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 09:11
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jbmoore jbmoore is offline
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Plan: Low carb and hCG
Stats: 187/180/145 Female 5 feet 3 inches
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Exactly, Nancy! They should know how to do it correctly.

I believe there are foods that lower blood pressure. Beets are one. And there are foods that raise blood pressure. You might google it.

I'm working on this too. Hope you can reverse your diabetic condition.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 10:27
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Say NO to Diabetes!
Posts: 8,671
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/228/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 92%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I definitely get the 'white coat syndrome' when I get by BP taken at the doctor's office. At my last appointment I was having a mole removed. By BP was 150/95 before the procedure. The nurse checked it again before I left and it was 130/83. That was just 25 minutes later.

When deciding what my BP meds should be -- and when deciding if I should come off of BP meds -- my doctor had me record my own BP a couple of times a day for a week using my home monitor. She said she does not rely on the reading taken by the nurse before the examination. She said it is more important to find out what your BP is most of the time. Mine was great at home 95% of the time so she took me off of BP meds. These days it varies in my home readings but is mostly from 120/75 to 135-85. It took me a year of doing this WOE and losing weight to get my BP down to the point where I could come off of the meds (Feb 2015) -- and it has been slowly improving since then.

BTW: I drink tons of coffee and I don't take any supplements other than a multivitamin with minerals. Maybe I should try avoiding the caffeine before the next doctor visit. Perhaps that will help getting a better reading at the doctor's office.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 18:16
Whited Whited is offline
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Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
Default

Thanks -- I eat dark chocolate pretty much every day (86%) at least two squares. Also I was eating two tablespoons of cocoa in my flaxseed muffin with dark chocolate on top. My BP was 160 over 100 today. It is just weird it has risen so fast in such a short amount of time. I'll monitor it for a few days.

Boy you are right about the nurses taking it incorrectly. At the dentist's office I'm laying down and at the doctor's office the nurse is asking me a whole bunch of questions while she's taking it -- I asked her if it isn't important to remail still and she looked preturbed and said it made no difference.

My diabetes is staying pretty good (blood sugars). That's why I really hate to take BP meds if at all possible because I don't want a medicine that raises blood sugars when I've worked so hard in keeping them normal. The nurse at school said if it stays 100 on the bottom for a week then I need meds asap. but I have read that it takes years for damage to occur. Kind of hard to know who to believe.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-15, 20:07
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
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Location: Vermont
Default

Here is what Malcolm Kendrick has to say about potassium:

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2013/0...visible-friend/

I've been supplementing with potassium for several years for the same reason that you have, on a low carb diet it seems hard to get adequate potassium. No matter what type of potassium you take, each pill will be only 3% of the RDA so I decided to take 6 pills a day, still only 18% of RDA. Dr Eades of Protein Power recommended potassium supplementation:

"Potassium is linked to sodium. If you lose a lot of sodium through the diuretic effect of the low-carb diet, you’ll ultimately lose a lot of potassium as well. Keeping your sodium intake up as mentioned above will help preserve your potassium as well. And keeping your potassium levels up helps to ensure that you don’t lose a lot of lean muscle mass during your weight loss. Plus, just as with sodium, adequate potassium prevents cramping and fatigue.

You can replace your potassium by taking potassium supplements. In our clinical practice, we gave all patients starting the low-carb diet a prescription for potassium. You can get the same dosage by taking four to five of the over-the-counter 99 mg potassium supplements you can purchase at any health food or natural grocery store.

There are a couple of prescription medicines that you’ve got to be aware of if you markedly increase your potassium intake, so if you’re on blood pressure medicines, ask your doctor if it’s okay for you to take potassium."

I use potassium citrate and have had no ill effects. Whether or not it has helped is hard to say but my blood pressure after many years of being "borderline high" is now in the normal range but I have no way of knowing if the potassium has had anything to do with that.

Jean
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-15, 06:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Have you seen this new study?

http://www.dietdoctor.com/news Go here to get all the links.


A new just-released study may transform the medical treatment of high blood pressure.
High blood pressure is super common in the modern world – about a third of the adult US population have it, and another third have borderline high blood pressure. Only one third of the adult population have “normal” pressure (under 120/80). High blood pressure increases the risk of diseases like heart disease and stroke.

The most common treatment by far – and the only treatment that doctors have time for during a 10-minute consultation – is drugs. It’s not uncommon for people with high blood pressure to get one, two, four or even more drugs to take daily for controlling their blood pressure.

The question has been how aggressively to treat high blood pressure in people at risk of complications from it. Earlier studies has only proved a benefit from lowering blood pressure to below 140 systolic pressure. Studies targeting lower goals have been small and inconclusive.

This new big study – funded by the National Institute of Health and other government organizations (not the pharma industry) – compared a goal of below 120 to a goal of below 140. The results were so clear that the study was stopped in advance after 3.2 years.

NYT: Data on Benefits of Lower Blood Pressure Brings Clarity for Doctors and Patients
NEJM: A Randomized Trial of Intensive versus Standard Blood-Pressure Control
The good news
Risk of premature death during the study dropped by about 1.2 percent in absolute numbers in the intensively treated group. In other words participants had a 1.2 percent chance of not dying during the study, due to taking more blood pressure lowering drugs. This is actually quite impressive. The risk of cardiovascular problems also dropped significantly.

The bad news
Lowering blood pressure this much required on average 3 drugs to be taken daily. Quite a few patients needed 4 or more drugs. All these drugs come with the risk of side effects.

Unfortunately the risk of serious side effects also increased – like the risk of ending up in the ER due to fainting from low blood pressure (risk up by 1.1 percent in absolute numbers) or having your kidneys damaged or totally give up on you (risk up by 1.3 percent).

The bottom line
Yes, it’s good for cardiovascular health to have a normal blood pressure. But aggressively lowering it with drugs always comes with side effects. These are not just about the serious things that makes you end up in the hospital. The more minor side effects are much more common. Feeling tired, lacking energy, gaining weight from beta-blockers, etc.

The really good news is that you can improve your blood pressure without 3, 4 or more daily drugs. And without any of the side effects." [end of Diet Doctor quote]

One of the articles I read yesterday mentioned how you should take a BP reading. Sitting quietly, no distractions, three times with an automatic machine, averaged. If they did that it was often much lower than the one shot reading in the rushed doctor office visit.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Nov-10-15 at 06:19.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-15, 08:21
Whited Whited is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 299
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: Missouri
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So what would you all do in my situation? The last 3 or 4 days my BP has been pretty consistant around 150 / 100 (sometimes higher on the top sometimes in the 140s sometimes in the mid 90s on the bottom).

Like I said it was pretty close to normal all summer. I know what the doctor will say -- he'll give out BP meds without question.

I can cut out caffine but I'm already doing low carb -- don't know what else would work. Would most of you go on medications with BP of 160 /100 or so? An how long I wonder would this be a detriment if it stays that way?

Thanks

Dennis

Last edited by Whited : Tue, Nov-10-15 at 08:33.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-15, 08:33
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Say NO to Diabetes!
Posts: 8,671
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/228/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 92%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

Do you exercise? That is supposed to help. You might try cutting back on the caffeine -- or at least changing your diet back to what it was when your BP was better. That way you can see if it is something that you are eating. From what I've read, some people are sensitive to salt and get an adverse reaction with their BP. You could try reducing your salt intake for a week or two and see if that has an effect.

My BP varies quite a bit. It is certainly much better than it was, but it bounces around by 10 or 15 points at any given time and I've yet to figure out why. Stress will raise it for sure, but there are times that I think it should be lower than it is because I'm fully relaxed.

It is still fairly rare that I get a reading below 120/80 -- so I sure hope my doctor doesn't adopt this new recommendation (see Janet's post) and push BP meds my way again. I'm quite happy NOT having to get up 3 or 4 times a night to go to the bathroom. Never getting a decent nights sleep can't be healthy, either. I'd rather stay prescription free if at all possible.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-15, 08:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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1. Be sure it really is high and not a temporary situation.
2. Follow all these tips: http://www.dietdoctor.com/blood-pressure

A good reminder from Amy Berger:

Quote:
P.S. Regarding tracking bloodwork: I’m not a doctor (and I don’t even play one on TV), but if I were one, I would try to avoid becoming alarmed based on any one-time snapshot. I think it’s more important to pay attention to how things are trending over time. This is especially true when it comes to prescribing side-effect riddled medication. This is completely different from the current standard of care, which would have everyone with a total cholesterol over 200mg/dL on statins (which we know are disasters), and similarly demands that other drugs be prescribed for other single measurements that are out of the normal range. Obviously, many of us in the LCHF/Paleo worlds are better educated in some of this stuff than the average patient. But we’re not immune to freaking out if something in our bloodwork surprises us. SO: what I said above, about keeping an eye on trigs, HDL, CRP, etc.? The same thing holds true. Don’t get overly alarmed if one or two things seem out of whack, particularly if they’ve been fine in the past and you haven’t made any dramatic changes (for the worse) to your diet & lifestyle. Some of the markers we keep an eye on—fasting glucose and blood pressure, for example—can be affected by things that happen just days—and sometimes minutes—before the blood is drawn. Did you get stuck in a traffic jam on the way to the lab or doctor’s office? Your BG could easily be 20 points higher than it would otherwise be. Did you have an intense workout the night before, or do you have a mild infection somewhere, or have you had dental work recently? Any of those things can temporarily elevate serum cholesterol. So yes, we should keep an eye on these things, but we should keep an eye on how they’re moving over time, and not scare ourselves silly over one marker at one point in time.

http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/1...lin-8.html#more

You mentioned in your first paragraph, during the summer your BP was fine, you're a teacher so fall would mean more stress after having three months of little, etc. Look at the overall pattern. And very closely look at all the Side Effects from any of the BP meds.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-15, 12:46
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lizzyLC lizzyLC is offline
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Plan: LC
Stats: 157/155/135 Female 5'6
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I have severe white coat syndrome - even on meds. When I first found out I had HBP my integrative MD gave me Carditone (an herbal blend you can get online) which worked for a couple of years. Then it stopped working and I'm on meds including potassium. No problems with potassium. It's fine at home but never good at the drs. office or dentist. Even if forget to take it at home for a while I get so nervous and end up with a high reading. Then I just take a couple more and inevitably the reading go progressively lower. It really is a head trip but it's also partly genetic. I suggest a good cuff and take three readings. With my Omron you don't have to wait long. Good luck and don't forget Magnesium.
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