I've just read Protein Power, which I really enjoyed. But i was surpirsed to read that I should be reducing the amount of alpha linoleic acid and increase the amount of linoleic acid cos ALA reduces the amounts of good eicosanoids. So I chucked my flaxseed oil (high in ALA) and went back to omega-3 fish oil and olive oil.
Then I read the thread Nat supplied in wangeci's journal (www.stumptuous.com/fat) which says that ALA is another name for omega-3 and that we need it and recommends flaxseed oil! It does say you need the ration 4:1 LA to ALA, but flaxseed is the opposite to that.
Help, now what am I supposed to do?
Anyone know anything else?

Flaxseed oil is an Omega-3 oil, but Dr. Eades is right. There are better ways to get Omega-3. The best Omega-3 oils are EPA and DHA from salmon oil.

Good question JayKay! I'm confused too! I've been taking one TS of flax seed oil in my shake every day and I put ground flax seed in my shake and in my steel cut oats. My joints don't hurt at all since following the Schwarzbein Principle. Heve a great weekend! Maureen (Who is having her film developed of the Sequois and hasn't eaten pork rinds in well over a week!)

Okay, a little more on the subject. ALL essential oils are good for you even ALA. So if you are taking your Atkins Essential Oils, no worries. However, if you would like to make a slight improvement then change to taking your Omega-3 as fish oil.

Reasons:
1. Flaxseed oil (linseed oil) is made from the seed of the flax plant however it is the Omega-3 fish oil has been shown to decrease heart disease in societies and peoples that eat mainly fish.

2. Both ALA and LA as well as EPA and DHA all lower risk of heart disease and are all "essential" to the human diet. Which Omega-3 you take doesn't matter in this respect.

3. However, when it gets down to eicosanoid production (the microhormones), ALA inhibits eicosanoid production. (see abstract below) If your body is producing mostly series two (bad) eicosanoids, then it isn't so bad to shut down production. But the better method is to leave eicosanoid production intact because it can also do good things and shift to an increase in series one (the good guys) eicosanoids. So when you run out of your Atkins Essential Fatty Acids, you can switch to Omega-3 from fish oil.

Lipids 1989 Apr;24(4):305-11

Modulation of eicosanoid production and cell-mediated cytotoxicity by dietary alpha-linolenic acid in BALB/c mice.

Fritsche KL, Johnston PV.

Department of Food Science, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.

The effects of dietary alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) on fatty acid composition, eicosanoid production, and cell-mediated cytotoxic activity of immune cells before and after challenge with virus or poly I-C from BALB/c mice were studied. Weanling BALB/c mice were fed purified diets containing either 10%-by-weight corn oil or linseed oil providing a ratio of 18:3n-3 to 18:2n-6 of 1/32 or 2/1, respectively, for 6-10 weeks. Fatty acid analysis of splenocyte phospholipids showed an appreciable increase in the percentage of n-3, and a decrease in n-6, fatty acids in splenocytes from mice fed the linseed oil diet. Splenocyte prostaglandin E and peritoneal exudate cell leukotriene C production was significantly lower in the linseed oil-fed mice. In general, cell-mediated cytotoxic activity was similar for immune cells from linseed oil and corn oil-fed mice. However, 6 days after the viral challenge, splenocyte cell-mediated cytotoxic activity was significantly higher in linseed oil mice. This higher activity was associated with nonspecific cytotoxicity rather than that of viral-specific cytotoxic T-lymphocytes. Cell yields from the spleen and peritoneum were frequently significantly higher in linseed oil mice. Interactions between dietary 18:3n-3, eicosanoid production, and immune cell proliferation and/or migration are discussed. In summary, feeding mice a diet rich in 18:3n-3 elevates immune cell n-3 fatty acid content, reduces eicosanoid synthesis and, to a limited extent, enhances the cell-mediated cytotoxic response to a viral challenge.

Lipids 1993 Jun;28(6):517-23 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Effect of age and alpha-linolenic acid deficiency on delta 6 desaturase activity and liver lipids in rats.

Dinh TK, Bourre JM, Durand G.

Laboratoire de Nutrition et de Securite Alimentaire, INRA 78352 Jouy-en-Josas, France.

The combined effects of age and of diet deficient in n-3 fatty acids on delta 6 desaturation of linoleic acid and on lipid fatty acid composition were studied in the liver of the rat at 2, 6, 12, 18 and 24 mon of age. The profiles of delta 6 desaturase activity and fatty acid composition were studied in the deficient rats refed, at these different ages, either with 18:3n-3 (mixture of peanut and rapeseed oils) or with 20:5n-3 + 22:6n-3 (fish oil) diets for 2, 4, 8 or 12 wk. Results showed that the liver delta 6 desaturation activity in the control rats remained high at 2 and 6 mon, decreased by 30% from 6 to 12 mon, and then remained stable from 12 to 24 mon. In the deficient rats, this activity remained high during the entire period studied. Thus, the profile of liver delta 6 desaturase activity after puberty was not related to age only; it also depended on the polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) n-6 and n-3 balance in the diet. In the controls, in parallel with the delta 6 desaturase activity, PUFA metabolism could be divided into three periods: a "young" period, and "old age" period, separated by a period of transition between 6 and 12 mon. Recovery from PUFA n-3 deficiency occurred at all ages but in a different manner depending on whether the rats were "young" or "old". Recovery was faster if long-chain n-3 PUFA rather than alpha-linolenic acid were supplied in the diet.

Just and FYI, the Eades reversed their decision on flaxseed oil after more research/information was made available when their second book, Protein Power Lifeplan was published.

From their website FAQ :



HTH
Nat

Hi Nat!

Thanks for that information. I had already ordered Eades newest book earlier today.

The studies he based his earlier opinions on were done in 1989 and 1993. Science is based on the reproducibility of the results by different laboratories to such an extent as the conclusions become acceptable in the science community.

Obviously the study in 1998 showing that ALA reduces eicosanoid synthesis has not been reproducible. In researching this I found many studies proving ALA reduces risk of cardiac disease and I found many other studies on the benefits of EPA and DHA. Perhaps the benefits of ALA outweigh and drawbacks.

Thanks for the information voyager and Nat, I knew somebody would know! I'll try to get a copy of the newer book too. So - i think I'll stick with fish oil capsules but I'll use flaxseed oil too (I like its taste in salad dressings so it helps me keep my calories up).

actually, there's a pretty easy answer to the fat question:

the only bad fat is hydrogenated fat (trans fatty acids). Sources of hydrogenated fat include margarine, commercial lard (real lard is great, but just try to find it!), every food in a box, frozen dinners, crackers, microwave popcorn, and regular commercial (soy) mayonnaise. Fats can also be damaged by overheating; most commercially available clear-looking vegetable oils are thus damaged (and then run through toxic chemicals as part of the filtering process).

Every other fat but hydrogenated is, in moderation, somewhere between fine for you and great for you. (Those fifteen words are a good-enough synopsis of the endless Erasmus book I've been reading--i just saved you the trouble!)

This is another reason (and there are dozens) to eat only real food that you've prepared yourself, and eat foods as close as possible to their natural state (raw nuts are better than roasted nuts are better than cold-pressed nut oils are much better than commercially processed clear vegetable oils). It's better to make your own mayo than buy it, and so on.

Scientists know some stuff...and Mother Nature knows a lot more.

I've chosen to take fish (salmon) oil because of the following quote:

from thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...ight=omega+fish

and

from thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...ongchain+omega3

So as far as I'm concerned, fish oil packs more benefit for the punch.

;-Deb

Thanks Deb,

Excellent input!

Yes, thanks Deb, that's worth knowing and makes sense of a lot of the advice. Jay

BTW: The more I read, the more I am coming to the conclusion that animal fats are better for us than vegetable fats. I'm not going to dig it up, but a while back I read a great article on how saturated fat from animal sources is good for us. That doesn't mean, of course, that I'm going to give up my olive oil. I love olive oil. But I use a lot of butter also.

;-Deb

Okay, I read the new Protein Power LifePlan. And it's a toss-up whether you take the fish oil or the flaxseed oil.

Fish oil has the benefit of already being converted into omega-3 fatty acids so your body doesn't have to do the work, but fish oil capsules like Atkin's Essential Fatty Acids go rancid especially those in a plastic bottle. And when they are rancid, they work against you! Omega-3 really only is made by plants, but it's the precursor (or first stage type) of omega-3. An animal needs to change the plant omega-3 to the finished omega-3 fatty acid which fish do. So fish oil is the finished type EPA and DHA omega-3, so our body doesn't have to work to bring it to finished form. However, eating too many of the larger fish can give you mercury poisoning (and you'd have to eat a lot to get all your omega-3).

Remember flaxseed oil is really GOOD for you (it's the precursor to omega-3 fatty acids which means that it becomes omega-3 in your body--if you are eating right and are healthy) Omega-3 is a substance which we would die without. When they do tests on animals and deny them omega-3 fatty acids (whether it's the flaxseed oil precursor or the finished fish oil omega-3) they die within a month--unfortunately they tried this on dogs in the early 1900s and the dogs died. Flaxseed oil is only bad for you if it is rancid. It usually never is rancid when you buy it if it is oil in a glass bottle (especially if the bottle is green or darker colored). It usually only goes rancid after you open it. So refrigerate it after you open it. If you buy the capsules and they are in a plastic container then they are more likely to be rancid. So much to know! But if you bite a capsule and it tastes really, really awful. It's bad. The same is true for other omega-3 capsules like "salmon oil", EPA and DHA or other fish oils. Be sure to buy in a glass bottle and refrigerate.

In fact all oils we buy should be in dark glass bottles and refrigerated after opening. Olive oil especially (which is Omega-9).

So the very best way to take your omega-3 is still fish oil if it's not rancid. You can do this buy eating sardines which are so small they don't contain much mercury if any. Or the next best way is by buying cod liver oil in a dark glass bottle so that you can taste when it gets rancid. Since I hate both these ways, I'm taking EPA and DHA in capsule form from a dark glass bottle that I've put in the refrigerate and I cut a capsule every few days to see if it is rancid.

They don't make it easy, do they!
Actually it's not lowcarbing that's expensive. We should have been taking all these supplements and eating all this stuff all along! Plus the medical bills get really expensive when you don't eat right, so it's a trade-off.

I've got a kind of "Off-Topic" qustion on the subject:

I heard a snippet on the Radio the other day (try and listen to anything properly if you have 3 6-year-old girls in the house.... ) that people with Eczema don't produce enough ALA or none at all which causes their skin condition.

My daughter has Eczema and I have started to give her Flax Seed Oil, but haven't seen much improvement. I wonder now, if her body may not be able to turn it into the needed long chain fat ?

Trouble is, that Mercury thing in Fish really worries me (especially as she is still only a child), so I don't really want ot give her too much big fish and I am not sure if she would eat Sardines.

The fish oil capsules which one can buy, are they tested for their Mercury content ? And is there any way of testing them without biting them ? I can't stand the taste of fish and the thought of having rancid fish-oil in my mouth makes me reek

Hmm, I am a bit stuck here. Can anyone help ?

Thanks
Sabine

Hi! No wonder your name is madpiano with three 6-year-olds in the house!

You might want to check out Dr. Eades Protein Power LifePlan at the library. He explains why we all eat an unbalanced diet when it comes to the omega-6 (LA) ratio to omega-3 (ALA). Omega-6 is found in a lot of vegetables and grains. This has to do with eicosanoid production. Omega-6 triggers the eicosanoid for inflamation. Omega-3 triggers the opposite effects of omega-6. It's important to have a balance, but there is almost no way to get enough omega-3 except by eating sardines or fish, but the book explains it better than I can. But the bottom line is that you heard correctly.

You can give your daughter Salmon Oil EPA capsules, but look for ones in a dark glass bottle that say "cholesterol-free" (Schiff has one). Dr. Eades says this means they filtered it so that it won't have mercury. Keep it in the refrigerator and cut open a capsule every once in awhile and touch a little to your tongue to see if it tastes rancid or really fishy. If so, they aren't good anymore. Vitamin E taken daily will neutralize any effect of an accidentally bad capsule. These capsules may be too big for a child to swallow though. Dr. Eades recommends Carlson's Cod Liver Oil but any brand is fine. These Cod Liver Oils come in cherry flavor and other flavors now so they don't taste that bad. Get one in a dark bottle and refrigerate it. Use within three weeks after opening.

Walter Willet (Harvard Dept of Nutrition) says farm-raised fish are less likely to be contaminated by mercury and other poisons than ocean-caught fish, but they may not be as high in omega-3 fatty acids, depending on what they were fed. If the fish are fed other fish or algae, they will have a high content of omega-3 fatty acids, he says. But if they are fed wheat and corn, they won't contain as much.

Your daughter might not be responding to the flaxseed oil because she is getting too many omega-6 in her diet which is undoing the effects. Try eliminating these foods from her diet that are lopsided toward omega-6. This list shows the ratio with left side as omega-6 : omega-3:

The following should be avoided:
Fats and Oils (look for these oils on any packaged foods)

Canola oil(rape seed oil) 22.2 : 11.2
Chicken fat 19.9 : 1.0 (not chicken meat, just the skin and fat)
Duck fat 11.9 : 1.0
Margarine, hard, soybean 19.4 : 1.5 -
Rice brain oil 33.4 : 1.6
Safflower oil 77 : 1
Mayonnaise, soybean type only 37.1 : 4.2
Soybean oil 51.1 : 6.8
Walnut oil 52.9 : 10.4
Wheat germ oil 54.8 : 6.9

Nuts and Seeds

Beechnuts, dried 18.4 : 1.7
Butternuts, dried 34.0 : 8.7
Hickory nuts, dried 20.9 : 1.0
Soybean kernels, roasted 11.2 : 1.5
Walnuts, black 34.2 : 3.3
Walnuts, English 32.3 : 6.8

(It should be noted that walnuts and other nuts are 4:1 which in itself is a good ratio when people have taken other omega-6 products out of their diet. However, if people are still eating corn, grain, red meat and vegetable oil, they might want to limit nuts to try to balance the ratio.)

Be sure you have the brown flaxseed oil. Linola (in Becel products) is a bad strain of yellow lin(flax)seed with less than 2% omega-3 (regular brown flax has 57%). P.S. Becel is excessive in omega-6 and best avoided.

Watch out that you aren't using high omega-6 (linoleic) from corn oil, soy oil, sunflower, safflower or cottonseed oils. For frying I'd use butter, virgin olive oil, or tropical (coconut and palm kernel oil). Virgin olive is a great oil for daily use but has no omega-3, but at least it doesn't unbalance with omega-6.

You might want to have your daughter stay away from red meat for awhile too. The cows are fed corn and grains and the meat becomes high in omega-6. If you can find free-range beef then it's okay. Also, you might want to try to find eggs fortified with omega-3 fatty acids or free-range eggs, these will be lower in omega-6. If this isn't possible, the fats are in the yolk, so you could try egg whites or egg beaters.

Another small fish that has a good ratio is anchovies which they usually put in caesar salads. Since omega-3 is also in green leafy vegetables like spinach, kale, romaine lettuce, and purslane, you get double the dose in a caesar with anchovies. Most tuna has good ratios, although blue fin and skipjack tuna have the best ratios. Crab and lobster have good ratios too. Conch has an especially good ratio.

Also, eczema is not only an inflammation problem, but an allergic reaction. Most Americans are allergic to wheat. I know this is hard for a child, but you might want to try taking her off wheat for awhile to see if this helps. I know my allergies went away when I stopped eating breads and wheat cereals. Grains have omega-6 as well but I don't know the ratio. Try oats and rice cereal for awhile if you have them eating cereals. If you find that she tolerates bread made with wheat flours okay, then find brands that are enriched with omega-3.

Since eczema is an allergy, make sure to keep the environment as dust-free and mold-free as possible. It is not advisable to have pets.

I hope this helps.

This link may be helpful:
http://www.foodallergynews.com/Gene.../Omega_Fats.htm