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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jun-24-10, 10:27
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default New and Desperate

Hello, I am new (and desperate ). When I am overweight, it is usually by about 20 pounds, which I know is not a huge amount, but it disturbs me, especially since my daughter is getting married next month. I have a varied dieting past, and I have to admit that the best I felt on a diet (and the most weight I lost) was on Atkins. What made me feel good was the constant energy and never being hungry.

I have multiple sclerosis, and when I read The China Study and John McDougall's books and Roy Swank's book, I began to have hope that there was a diet that could reverse or at least stop the course of my illness. It is a vegan, extremely lowfat, whole-foods diet. It is thought that dairy especially is linked to the development of MS. When I saw the movie Food, Inc., about the terrible animal farming practices, it reinforced my desire to live a vegan lifestyle.

I followed the McDougall diet religiously for 7 months. I didn't feel bad on it, but I gained weight. I think now it's because eating so many starches made me hungry and tired, so I would eat more starches to take away the hunger. When I added Green Smoothies (half greens, half fruit, blended) to the diet about a month ago, the weight added on even more quickly. Very discouraging.

I picked up the Hellers' book The 7-Day Low-Carb Rescue and Recovery Plan last week, and I have been reading this forum, and I have to say I think the CAD/CALP was made for me. I yearn to feel slim and energetic again.

My only problem is that I hate to give up the hope of treating my illness with diet, and I would love to eat vegan or at least vegetarian. It almost seems like a choice between feeling good (and slender) or stopping my disease (and respecting the environment). What a choice.

This is McDougall's recommendation for hypoglycemia (which we might call "carbohydrate addiction"?):
" Change to a starch-based diet, with no refined foods. Limit fruits initially, because of their high content of simple sugars. Eat frequently, maybe six or more times a day when beginning. Eat plenty of food at each meal, and don't be concerned about gaining weight (because starches make you thin)."

Well, I am here to tell you, this did not work for me at all. Starches made me gain weight.

Has anyone else here had experience with struggling about the pros and cons of the CAD/CALP diet? My pros are that I lose weight easily on it, my energy levels are smooth on it, I feel good, I lovelovelove the food. My cons are that it goes against the vegan diet that is supposed to halt MS in its tracks and I liked feeling "virtuous" on a vegan diet because it is supposed to be good for the environment.

Anyway, hello, everyone, this looks like a great forum!

(Oops, I really meant to post this in the CAD/CALP section, if someone knows how to move it there, I would appreciate it. )

Last edited by AliceAlice : Thu, Jun-24-10 at 10:31. Reason: posted in wrong section
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jun-24-10, 10:51
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Or maybe I should start a journal with this stuff. Ay yi yi.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jun-25-10, 11:59
slimmindy's Avatar
slimmindy slimmindy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 104
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 176/-/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 10%
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The Hellers do have vegetarian recipes in CALP. So apparently you can do the program if you are vegetarian.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jun-25-10, 12:10
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Hoppinn Hoppinn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,013
 
Plan: CALP & Exercise
Stats: 236/129/140 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 111%
Location: California
Default

Alice,

Why don't you give it a try since you have nothing to lose except weight!

Best of luck to you!
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jun-25-10, 13:30
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Thank you guys, this is a great adventure!
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jun-28-10, 08:50
Enomarb Enomarb is offline
MAINTAINING ON CALP
Posts: 4,838
 
Plan: CALP/CAHHP
Stats: 180/125/150 Female 65 in
BF:
Progress: 183%
Location: usa
Default

hi Alice-

I have no info on treating MS with diet. I have never heard of eating starch!

You have to do what works for you. There is quite a bunch of literature on using low carb for inflammatory and autoimune diseases like crohns and such. Maybe do some more research?

I love CALP and love LC, but it a very individual decision.

Welcome to the forum- and congrats on the wedding!
E
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Jun-28-10, 20:00
Vampyress Vampyress is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins 72
Stats: 158/158/118 Female 63.5
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default

Hi Alice,

I didn't lose on McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss Plan. In fact, I had severe reactive hypoglycemia on it from the starches.

I've read Esselstyn, McDougall, Fuhrman, The China Study, etc. Not sure I buy all they have to say.

I sure don't agree with the factory farming practices in the U.S. They are unusually inhumane and cruel. So much for being civilized.

However, I would suggest you listen to one of Jimmy Moore's podcasts. It's a recent one with Kevin Brown, creator of the Liberation Diet. It makes it a little clearer why we have to even be careful with vegetables and fruits as they are sugar. There is some "God" stuff in there but you can always ignore that if it offends you.

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/...on-episode-369/
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jun-28-10, 22:40
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enomarb
hi Alice-

I have no info on treating MS with diet. I have never heard of eating starch!

You have to do what works for you. There is quite a bunch of literature on using low carb for inflammatory and autoimune diseases like crohns and such. Maybe do some more research?

I love CALP and love LC, but it a very individual decision.

Welcome to the forum- and congrats on the wedding!
E


Thank you, Enomarb! By "starch" McDougall means potatoes, beans, rice, bread, etc.

I will certainly do some reading on using low carb for autoimmune diseases. Thanks again!
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jun-28-10, 22:48
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyress
Hi Alice,

I didn't lose on McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss Plan. In fact, I had severe reactive hypoglycemia on it from the starches.

I've read Esselstyn, McDougall, Fuhrman, The China Study, etc. Not sure I buy all they have to say.

I sure don't agree with the factory farming practices in the U.S. They are unusually inhumane and cruel. So much for being civilized.

However, I would suggest you listen to one of Jimmy Moore's podcasts. It's a recent one with Kevin Brown, creator of the Liberation Diet. It makes it a little clearer why we have to even be careful with vegetables and fruits as they are sugar. There is some "God" stuff in there but you can always ignore that if it offends you.


I have lived and breathed those authors you mentioned for the last year. I certainly did want to believe that they were right about treating disease with diet. But I told you what my problems were in my first post.

Thank you so very much for the podcast link, Vampyress. I look forward to listening to it.

As for eating meat and dairy, which I now think I almost have to do (I'm still going to try the vegetarian recipes), there is a local farm that raises beef and poultry humanely, and maybe I can cough up the extra bucks to get my food that way.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jul-14-10, 14:16
Lmyers9999 Lmyers9999 is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins till now CAD
Stats: 167/167/150 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

Almost no autoimmune disease exists in the few cultures that are left that eat their native diets. Visit the Weston Price Foundation to read about this. And since Myelin is made up of fat I can't see how you could go wrong eating this diet especially since whole native foods are known to decrease autoimmune dysfunction. I think you can treat disease with diet, but certainly not the ones these quackos recommend. Our native paleo diet was low carb and bore no resemblance to what they recommend. You have tried that and it didn't work, so I would think this is a no-brainer? Just my humble 2 cents.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Jul-16-10, 06:02
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmyers9999
Almost no autoimmune disease exists in the few cultures that are left that eat their native diets. Visit the Weston Price Foundation to read about this. And since Myelin is made up of fat I can't see how you could go wrong eating this diet especially since whole native foods are known to decrease autoimmune dysfunction. I think you can treat disease with diet, but certainly not the ones these quackos recommend. Our native paleo diet was low carb and bore no resemblance to what they recommend. You have tried that and it didn't work, so I would think this is a no-brainer? Just my humble 2 cents.


Thank you, Lmyers, your 2 cents is quite valuable!

Oh, EXCEPT! There's something that "doesn't work" for me with low carb, and that is my elimination system! I have tried all the remedies that people suggest (psyllium, flax, Super cleanse, Udo's Oil, Miralax, etc.), but I think with my neurological condition, it makes it more difficult. Now constipation is one problem that I did NOT have when I was on the "quacko" diets. So how do I find what truly works for me? McDougall makes me overweight and have blood sugar problems, so that can't be for me. Low Carb lets me lose weight and have even blood sugar, but it makes me constipated. So what is the answer for me? I keep wondering.

Last edited by AliceAlice : Fri, Jul-16-10 at 06:31.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jul-16-10, 06:25
faduckeggs faduckeggs is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,709
 
Plan: HF Atkins paleo
Stats: 230/144/150 Female 63 inches
BF:less/than/before
Progress: 108%
Location: Dallas
Default

I also have MS. And I have learned to treat it largely through diet.

There is a counter school of thought out there that grains and gluten are about the worst thing you can eat if you have an autoimmune disease. I follow this rule. When I am completely grain and gluten free, my MS symptoms seem to disappear. When I tried Swank's crazy theories, I found myself bed-ridden and in a wheelchair, out on disability leave. I think he's a hack.

I am currently grain free and paleo. I am also off all MS drugs, back to work full time as an attorney, even wearing high heels again. I am not the only person with MS who has found that avoiding gluten and dairy are keys to good health.

In fact, before the invents of the CRABs, MS was treated in Europe with super low carb diets. There is a whole history of MS and low carb/gluten free. So don't dispair at getting well.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jul-16-10, 06:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Oh, I feel for you, but I think the whole vegan/low fat thing is totally off-base. It's ideological; it's not based on any kind of science.

Good fats are vital for proper neurological function. And my husband is treating his autoimmune disorder with antibiotic therapy, somewhat like the long-term Lyme disease treatment.

For MS, it is discussed at this link:

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/gro...da-e7cd9ec65c90

and this:

http://braintalkcommunities.org/for...php/t-4252.html

A doctor in the UK (Wheldon protocol) has been keeping his wife's MS in remission for years with it, last I knew. And my husband is doing wonderfully with it; his symptoms have dramatically decreased, though he's on a level that makes him easily tired, this is the first thing that helped, not masked, his problems.

So I think you should listen to your body, and explore other MS options.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jul-16-10, 06:32
AnniMin AnniMin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: Low carb Paleo
Stats: 294/292/175 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Minnesota
Default

Alice, I completely understand how you feel about changing from a vegan diet to a low carb diet. Like you, I read all the books you mentioned plus a few more. I was convinced that the human diet was supposed to be vegan. I went on the McDougall diet and stuck to it religiously. At first I did pretty well on it, once I got used to the gnawing hunger. Each day when I stepped on the scale and it remained the same or went up a pound or two, I told myself to be patient, the diet would work, my body just needed a little more time to adjust. Well, it never did adjust to eating starches and vegetables. Instead I developed reactive hypoglycemia and I never lost a pound.

I have fibromyaglia and the pain got worse and worse as I continued on that vegan diet. Finally, when I was in a situation where I couldn't prepare my vegan foods I switched to a low carb diet out of necessity. I immediately began to feel better, with far less fibro pain and tons more energy. I wasn't hungry all the time. I slept better. It was amazing, really.

I still wrestle with the moral/environmental factor of eating animal foods. Those vagan books do a great job of instilling feelings of guilt and fear if you resume a meat based diet. But if you listen to your body as you go through the next couple of weeks on a low carb diet, you will soon realize that this is the way we were designed to eat.

Either way, vegan or low carb, you have to cut out processed food and just doing that makes a huge difference in how you feel, but when you add the needed fat and protein to your diet your body will respond very well to it and you'll begin to feel much better.

Good luck to you as you fine tune your diet. I hope it helps you control your MS symptoms. And have fun as the mother of the bride at your daughter's wedding!
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jul-16-10, 06:41
AliceAlice AliceAlice is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins Induction/CALP
Stats: 142/137/125 Female 5 ft. 7 in.
BF:
Progress: 29%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faduckeggs
I also have MS. And I have learned to treat it largely through diet.

There is a counter school of thought out there that grains and gluten are about the worst thing you can eat if you have an autoimmune disease. I follow this rule. When I am completely grain and gluten free, my MS symptoms seem to disappear. When I tried Swank's crazy theories, I found myself bed-ridden and in a wheelchair, out on disability leave. I think he's a hack.

I am currently grain free and paleo. I am also off all MS drugs, back to work full time as an attorney, even wearing high heels again. I am not the only person with MS who has found that avoiding gluten and dairy are keys to good health.

In fact, before the invents of the CRABs, MS was treated in Europe with super low carb diets. There is a whole history of MS and low carb/gluten free. So don't dispair at getting well.


Thank you so much, faduckeggs. This is really inspiring. I was hoping someone who has MS would chime in. I will do some more reading.

I also wonder, if I may be so bold: how do you treat the constipation problem? I'm going to paste what I wrote in my above reply because I added it later and you may not have seen it:

There's something that "doesn't work" for me with low carb, and that is my elimination system! I have tried all the remedies that people suggest (psyllium, flax, Super cleanse, Udo's Oil, Miralax, etc.), but I think with my neurological condition, it makes it more difficult. Now constipation is one problem that I did NOT have when I was on the McDougall diet. So how do I find what truly works for me? McDougall makes me overweight and have blood sugar problems, so that can't be for me. Low Carb lets me lose weight and have even blood sugar, but it makes me constipated. So what is the answer for me? I keep wondering.

(I love your high heels comment! Not to mention "full time attorney"!)

Last edited by AliceAlice : Fri, Jul-16-10 at 06:55.
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