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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Mar-16-23, 11:26
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Location: San Diego, CA
Default Good news, Bad news

My summary:
Sucralose lowers T-cell function in high doses (in mice). Good news, perhaps something there can treat autoimmune disorders. Bad news... dying from infections?
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...s-in-mice.aspx#
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Mar-16-23, 12:34
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
Default

I guess it makes sense that glucose analog that can't be metabolized can have significant effects with a high enough dose.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-23, 03:05
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
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Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
My summary:
Sucralose lowers T-cell function in high doses (in mice). Good news, perhaps something there can treat autoimmune disorders.


I think this is an "accurate" insight based on what medicine operates from regarding autoimmune. But I've staked my life on this being the wrong theory.

We see lowered T-cell function which leads to uncontrolled infections. Lowering my T-cell function isn't going to help my autoimmune. Yet similar mechanisms are what the autoimmune drugs do to reduce autoimmune "symptoms." No symptoms, no problem, right?

But that's wildly wrong, because I need my immune system. Runaway infection is a serious risk with the autoimmune drugs.

I understand: it's a way to live your life, because the pain and disability is real and awful. But it's not a good way, because it grandly assumes our immune system is the problem. I was told, "it's confused and attacks the wrong things" when it's much more likely that a leaky gut lets stuff out my immune system then attacks.

It's not confused. It's overwhelmed, overworked, given too many targets that are also vital tissues. Stuff that's supposed to stay in the gut gets out and tries to kill me. At least, that's my conclusion from eliminating all food input that gets me this terrible, life-destroying, output.

The oxalate angle made everything else I did suddenly start making more sense. Jan 2019 I went carnivore, which is essentially zero oxalate, and got immediate relief from flares because it was the high oxalate foods I added which confused me. But at a certain point, relief from the symptoms... looks like the symptoms.

Oxalate is that elusive "detox" everyone is chasing, only doing the opposite of what is needed. We shouldn't be slamming the body with spinach smoothies loaded with oxalate, which has put people in the hospital and on dialysis. This is a KNOWN problem which conflicts with the embedded mantra in everyone's head: plants good, animal bad.

Zero carb is also zero oxalate. This was the cue for my body to start dumping oxalate, which triggered my autoimmune symptoms. It really is a toxin my body can't get rid of as long as intake remains high. Which is ironic, because the vegans recommend more to "fix" this problem.

They are tormenting mice with our diet so they get sick. I think there's a lesson there...
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-23, 03:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Default

For clarity, leaky gut increases our oxalate intake. It's an actual toxin which circulates and our body tries to get rid of it. These ultraprocessed foods are gut killers, and we're told to eat MOAR vegetables, and many of their "brightly colored favorites" are bad choices when someone is sick from leaky gut.

It's a fake food syndrome.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Mar-18-23, 08:36
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Thanks for the link to the article, Nancy. This is interesting, as anything in any dose that impacts T cells is worth studying. If anything in this substance can be used to target root causes of autoimmune disorders, it's good to know. Certainly more to come, and Teaser's comment hits the mark, as the doses were extremely high. Another study with lower doses over a longer time frame might determine if long-term use closer to a human-equivalent dose has any impact. Let's just hope they don't ignore the human aspect of consuming sucralose while chasing the autoimmune topic. As posted many times before, we will benefit when we really know what AS consumption is doing to us, short- and long-term.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-23, 14:52
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
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Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Yes, I take a vitamin D supplement, mainly in wintertime. It falls in my category of "couldn't hurt, might help." As I recall, it's supposed to help bones retain calcium, a good thing for a li'l ole lady.

I think there's nothing but epidemiological evidence--or even anecdotal reports--for the effectiveness of supplements.

Eg. I've been taking some version of glucosamine/chondroitin (or some other combo) for decades. Does it do anything? Well, I still have all my original parts, whereas all my siblings and most of my friends have new knees, new hips, and old backaches.

You know the old joke: "Me: I clap my hands to keep the tigers away. Them: There aren't any tigers around here! Me: It's working!!"

Carry on!
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-23, 05:42
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
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Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
You know the old joke: "Me: I clap my hands to keep the tigers away. Them: There aren't any tigers around here! Me: It's working!!"



I want that on a t-shirt!
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-23, 08:49
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
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Plan: RNY (small portions)
Stats: 306/225/120 Female 63"
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Default

I thought it was the Killer B cells that are the problem in autoimmune diseases? I don't know, the (human, never mind the mouse) immune system is one of the most complex things to understand on the planet. And every living thing has a different one, it seems. Even people vary widely. Throw in vax effects and who the heck can track what could be going on.

And FYI the Autoimmune Protocol Diet insists that no AS are allowed. Why would that be. Because for some people, they trigger autoimmune responses.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-23, 08:50
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
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Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Glad you enjoyed that, Doreen. Looks like my Vitamin D comment belonged in another thread, but never mind.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-23, 05:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
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Default

My own experience extended to finding research on the binders in so many processed foods, to make them taste better and have more authentic mouthfeel. The more processed the food, I'm thinking, the more of these cheaper additions they have to put back in.

And people wouldn't buy my homemade version of a protein shake. Because to get it non-lumpy as a hot beverage, without these additions, I have to make it into a ball of creamy shiny stuff with a whisk. It's also fine blendered with yogurt. But I think it would be lumpy in a shaker, and no one would would drink it that way.

But if they discovered this binder problem can be fixed, there's still a binder problem, and they will focus on less damaging binders and sweeteners and emulsifiers and other shortcuts real cooks used to use with real food.

It's signaling food when it's not. It's is science fiction now.

And we can't forget convenience, because we will do the most self-defeating things that way, not realizing, because this information is not getting out to the people who need to hear it. Like a "healthier" shake mix with less of the problematical ingredients would help. But no one seems to test these.

I remember when people were trying whole food diets on their kids with behavior problems, or noticing a troublesome food after consumption, and taking it out of the child's diet, and amazing things happened. Now, the lingering lessons have been turned into a brand named "organic" which is stamped on ultraprocessed foods.

Which is why focusing on fake foods is probably the simplest message, and the easiest to get out there.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-23, 07:56
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

It took me years to kick the sweeteners. I thought that there was no problem with the artificial ones and when I changed my mind about them, I switched to Stevia, which is natural. One day I wondered why I needed to sweeten my foods and quit using sweeteners. I don't miss them as there are other food tastes than sweet.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-29-23, 10:27
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
One day I wondered why I needed to sweeten my foods and quit using sweeteners. I don't miss them as there are other food tastes than sweet.

I did the same, and it's amazing how sensitive I've become to sweet tastes in whole foods. Years ago when I was actively feeding my carb addiction, they wouldn't have tasted the least bit sweet.
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