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  #241   ^
Old Wed, Nov-14-18, 10:22
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,881
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/196/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 43%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberfat
i m doing zero carb looong time maybe 2-3 years.
i lost all my excessive weight in 6 months i think 55kg
never count calories but sometimes i did never eat anything like fasting especially when i see my body start changing. Than i stop count calories still lost ton of weight. last year i was in thailand to experiment i eat rice and thai food full of carbs gain 7-8kg in 1.5 month i didnt like how i feel , i was still skinny but something felt wrong mentally i felt depressed. i was very happy with zero carb so i retun zero carb. yes zero carb is more delicious than carbs.
i think i never want to eat carbs again.

good to see you around here Uberfat! I have experimented with Carb intake too, over carbing and my body weight shoots up 20 lbs in 3 days then stablilizes - feel crummy but not sick or craving. return to very low carb or straight fasting and return to normal pertty quickly. Eating carbs is "fun" but not worth it - I think they are over rated

I've yet to try zero carb - may give that a shot after some experimenting with strict alternate day fasting - maybe I can do that with zero carb...

PS, I still can't find a good source of lamb fat here in USA haha! Later UBER.
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  #242   ^
Old Thu, Nov-15-18, 07:25
baskington baskington is offline
New Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 156/127.8/125 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Default

High fat combined with carbs generally would not work. If your carb addition helps, then do what works for you and don't mess with it Bawdy.

the idea is most of your fuel is fat. Once you convert to fat usuage your body uses that and any extra going to making extra ketones.

If your protein is too high you will experience a insulin response and the body will switch from fat usuage to using the protein. So everyones protein level can be very different.

I started testing my blood and found my higher protein maintenance test was higher glucose all the time with low to super low keytones. I gained weight on lower calories.

This week I have been testing higher fat and while it is difficult to be exact with meat only diet as it ranges, I know by the thermal reaction inside hard to explain, my fat level is higher than I am tracking. My intestines are telling me too!

I am currently getting lower glucose readings and higher keytone readings. I am eating 300 calorie average over my RDI. I have gained 2/10's of a pound this past 8 or 9 days of eating higher fat and more calories.

I am more reactive to higher protein than others. Even on higher fat like I am doing, my protein is in the 90's to 100. now if I am off on my calculations I may actually be in the 80's to 90's. Very interesting experiment for me. Good timing too as my appetite has finally come back and I need to handle those extra calories

Last edited by baskington : Thu, Nov-15-18 at 07:36.
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  #243   ^
Old Thu, Nov-15-18, 12:26
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,483
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 212/202/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 24%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Just wanted to add that even though I had increased my carb intake for several days, it never got over 10% of my calories. I'm not worried about the extra protein turning to glucose (the body does need a tad bit of glucose anyway). From what I've read, that only happens in rare situations. I'd have to find the reference, and don't have time to find it now.

I've already read in MANY places that if you have fat to lose, your fat intake should not be really high, even on a ketogenic plan.

Who knows? Each of us has to figure out what works and what doesn't. So personalized.

I'm going to try the higher protein, lower fat, VERY few carbs (if any) for a week or so and see what happens.
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  #244   ^
Old Thu, Nov-15-18, 13:26
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Protein into glucose isn't rare. It's just not that fast.

And--when we're talking about high fat ratio versus other ketogenic plans, things are very different. There is absolutely no doubt that the ketogenic diet given for epilepsy, or the one advocated by D'Agostino and Seyfield will increase ketone metabolism and decrease glucose metabolism. The studies sourced by smart folk like Amber O'Hearn don't actually address protein in those ranges.

Suppose I eat lots of protein. Maybe I'll increase my lean mass. I won't turn into the Hulk. Once I've hit the point of minimal return, any increase from increasing protein will be... minimal.

Now, if habitual protein intake relates to levels of gluconeogenesis in a ketogenic diet--is there reason to believe that no matter how much protein you take in, your body will just keep ramping up glucose production? Or will the process become saturated at some point--and then increasing protein will no more increase glucose synthesis, than increasing protein in the other example would make me Hulk out? Will added protein increase gluconeogenesis? Maybe the question is backwards--is there some point of decreased protein intake where gluconeogenesis will be decreased? We already know of one--fasting. Answer the question, and you'll know that as long as the starting protein is below that point--then adding protein will increase glucose production, until you get to that point of diminished returns.
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  #245   ^
Old Thu, Nov-15-18, 14:18
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,414
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default The Boulder Carnivore Conference

From Dr. Georgia Ede's recent newsletter:

Quote:
"I'm excited to announce that the world's first carnivore conference dedicated to the science and health effects of plant-free diets will take place on Thursday March 7th, 2019 in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. This pioneering event is the brainchild of the brilliant Amber O'Hearn, who has deep knowledge of and long experience with plant-free diets. Whether you are already purely carnivorous or just curious to see what all the fuss is about around this hot micro-trend, I hope to see you there! You'll want to register ASAP, as space is limited to approx 200 people. Ticket prices go up Jan 1st (if there are any left). The international speaker lineup is fabulous. My presentation title is yet to be announced but my talk will include information about the mental health implications of carnivory. Registration includes catered plant-free lunch."

Conference link:
https://carnivorycon.com/info/?utm_...619a98-97647217
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  #246   ^
Old Thu, Nov-15-18, 15:13
uberfat's Avatar
uberfat uberfat is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 190
 
Plan: mine
Stats: 222/185/143 Male 175
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
good to see you around here Uberfat! I have experimented with Carb intake too, over carbing and my body weight shoots up 20 lbs in 3 days then stablilizes - feel crummy but not sick or craving. return to very low carb or straight fasting and return to normal pertty quickly. Eating carbs is "fun" but not worth it - I think they are over rated

I've yet to try zero carb - may give that a shot after some experimenting with strict alternate day fasting - maybe I can do that with zero carb...

PS, I still can't find a good source of lamb fat here in USA haha! Later UBER.


haha, yes lamb fat is something rare but you have pork . if it is natural produced pork i guess it will be very healthy too.
in thailand villagers never eat pork from supermarkets but they buy from street market raw fresh. I guess in foreign countries they call it organic.
pork ribs one of the most delicious food in the world so if i could find in Turkey i would eat very often. i suggest try natural pork. good thing about pork is everywhere body fat
also very very very cheap
yummy.
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  #247   ^
Old Fri, Nov-16-18, 04:33
baskington baskington is offline
New Member
Posts: 11
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 156/127.8/125 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Default

if you want totally grassfed lamb here is a link, not cheap https://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/meat-store/products

Sam's club has decent prices on lamb I forget if it is from new Zealand. they get fresh deliveries

Slanker meat link, I have histamine issues so I like the way these folks process their meat. they immediately freeze it after they cut it.

I can't afford grassfed for my diet, but I wanted to incorporate as much as I could afford. I definitely wanted my liver and organ meats grassfed as well as my bones. The fat is too strong tasting for me, but on the meats it is great.

I get their primal blend of hamburger and tolerate it well. I get it in the buffalo blend for variety.

Last edited by baskington : Fri, Nov-16-18 at 04:42.
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  #248   ^
Old Fri, Nov-16-18, 09:06
wyatt's Avatar
wyatt wyatt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 237
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 235/220/210 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Bawdy,

Have you looked at diet composition from the "grams" perspective? I don't find % that useful for my purposes. Hopefully this link will work for you.

OKL Chart

https://www.google.com/search?q=okl...P8lTo5Y5jG9M :

By holding the Ctrl key down and moving your mouse wheel you can make the page bigger or smaller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
THIS is where I get confused. Some people say you need to be up around 70 - 80% fat for it to work, and others say if the fat is too high your body will burn the fat you eat rather than the fat stored on your body.

I've tried this every which way, and there don't seem to be any patterns. I know from the Dr-ordered elimination diet (based on IgG testing) that I'm sensitive to dairy, eggs, lettuce, tomato, and few other odd things. I'm only moderately sensitive; no foods registered highly inflammatory for me. When I did the elimination diet, I ate roasted white or sweet potatoes usually twice a day, and had 1 or 2 bananas twice a day. I lost 15 pounds in 3 months without really trying.

I think I'll take my experiments back to my journal so as not to interrupt the discussion here.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and support!

Last edited by wyatt : Fri, Nov-16-18 at 09:27.
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  #249   ^
Old Fri, Nov-16-18, 15:13
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,483
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 212/202/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 24%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Wyatt, yes I look at things from the gram perspective, too. Right now I'm shooting for around 1470 calories with 90 grams of fat, 20 grams of carbs, and 145 grams of protein (trying the higher protein for a while). That fits right into the ranges they suggest for my height (5'6") on the chart you linked to. Interesting chart. Thanks for sharing!
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  #250   ^
Old Sat, Nov-17-18, 07:28
wyatt's Avatar
wyatt wyatt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 237
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 235/220/210 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Awesome BW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
Wyatt, yes I look at things from the gram perspective, too. Right now I'm shooting for around 1470 calories with 90 grams of fat, 20 grams of carbs, and 145 grams of protein (trying the higher protein for a while). That fits right into the ranges they suggest for my height (5'6") on the chart you linked to. Interesting chart. Thanks for sharing!
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  #251   ^
Old Sat, Nov-17-18, 09:06
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,483
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 212/202/170 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 24%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Yesterday was my second day of much higher protein. (Thursday was 103 and Friday was 138. That's up from an average of round 60. This morning I stepped on the scale and was down 2 pounds!!! After a month and losing and gaining the same 2 pounds, I'm now 2 pounds lower that the lowest before. Woo-hoo!!!

Breakfast is a double protein shake (beef protein powder) with a touch of heavy cream and some frozen strawberries. That's a good 48 grams of protein to start the day. I try for 50 grams of protein per meal. Haven't gotten to 150 grams of protein yet (shooting for a total of 140), but I'm getting closer.

I might just be one of those people who needs more protein.
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