what makes you most full in terms of protein? Please no cheese or nuts! But what do you sub in for meat that makes you feel full for awhile? thanks!

Well, y'know, if you're going to eliminate meat, then you DO need to be kind of flexible about your other protein sources.

If you're also going to eliminate cheese and nuts, two veyr high fat protein sources which will contribute to satiety, then you're going to be limited to things like soybeans in all forms, quorn and seitan.

I personally don't use 'meat substitutes.' I use tempeh, seitan, tofu for what they are, not for what someone thinks they can make them try to be. To me, a stuffed portobello mushroom or a stuffed zucchini is just as filling on its own merits as meat dishes...but I use plenty of good oils, eggs, and dairy.

Mileage will vary.

Do not forget green vegetables. They are low calorie, but a high proportion of the calories come from protein.

While there are some proteins in green vegetables, only things like sea vegetables/algae are a truly valid source of protein.
The protein present in green veggies is so incomplete and in such small amounts depending on the veggie that you'd have to eat enormous quantities of say, kale, or broccoli, to get the 7g of protein present in one single egg or the amount of protein present in one quarter cup of cooked edamame (soybeans.) We're talking not cups but pounds of kale and broccoli here...the carb cost and sheer volume of food would be prohibitive.

You can be a vegan and work low carb...but using green veggies as a primary protein source is counterproductive.

Mileage will vary.

shelled hempseed can fill you up... quick grind in a coffee grinder and eat with a green apple... very tasty. check amazon for 5lb bags of nutiva... also raw dairy products are good.

What amino acids might a vegan be deficient in, with say 1-1.5 lbs of greens a day, plus fruit, nuts, seeds, vegetables and pulses, and hardly any grains. I reckon I get two eggs' worth of protein from greens, the rest from other sources adding up to 81g per day.

There are quite a few meat subs out there that are rich in protein. I like Morningstar Farms Veggie Crumble (you have to be careful, though - there are several, not all of them low carb, so I get the one that is 80 cals for 2/3 cup and something like 2 or 3 grams carbs). I use it every day to make a "bowl" with veggies and cheese for lunch and it's very filling.

There are also frozen products like veggie burgers (but some have cheese in them, so you also have to read labels - Boca Vegan burgers don't and they're something like 1 or 2 carbs a burger) and veggie hot dogs (again, read labels - Morningstar Farms has some that are something like 5 carbs/hot dog but Smart Dogs, which I buy at Walmart, are 1 carb/ hot dog) as well as veggie sausages and veggie cold cuts. All of these are about 12-15 gr/ protein per serving and give a nice variety.

Finally, textured vegetable protein or TVP is also a nice alternative to meat. Bob's Red Mill has some that is crumbled and dry so it keeps well. You just have to pour boiling water over it and let it sit for a bit before using it. You can use it like ground beef and some people also use it like rice, since it's pretty tasteless. I believe that a 1/4 cup dry (which turns out about 1/2 cup after you soak it) is around 3 gr carbs and 15 gr protein.

Hope that helps! It's a bit annoying that so much vegetarian protein (other than dairy and beans) has to come in the form of highly processed foods, like veggie burgers and tofu, but if you're doing lowcarb, that's what you have to work with (and personally, I'd much rather have a processed veggie burger made of veggie protein than an unprocessed meat patty ).

Tam

Joe, without knowing your exact menu, I wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess. But if I were you, I'd visit www.nutritiondata.com, plug in your day's consumption, and let the protein profile graph speak for itself. I'd love to be wrong in this instance, but based on what I know about the nutrient makeup of most greens, I don't see any way you could be getting a full complement of amino acids and getting 81g of complete protein from the menu you describe. And 81g of complete protein is just a daily recommended minimum for someone with a lean body mass of around 110 lbs...so unless you're as small as I am, you need more protein than that, about 0.5g/pound of LBM, or around a gram per kilo of body weight (more if you're more active.)

The *only* vegetarian proteins which are totally complete (i.e. have the full complement of amino acids within themselves, or a protein score of 1 are eggs, whey and soybeans. If' you're vegan, eggs and whey are out...which leaves you with soybeans.

Here's a table which illustrates the quantities of foods you'd need to eat from vegan sources to obtain a complete essential amino acid profile...
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#table3

The recommended quantities include 12-1/3c corn, 6-1/2 large potatoes, or 15-1/2c cooked rice. Unfortunately, I've lost my bookmark for the same kind of chart for greens, but the quantities are similar...and the carb costs, similarly huge. I double-checked in Fitday, and to get 15g of protein from cooked kale (at a carb cost of 28g ECC), you'd have to eat 6 cups (cooked weight) of kale. If you went raw, it would be 6 1/2 cups of raw kale to get 14g protein, and that would be a carb cost of 35g ECC.

I love my vegetarian and meatless meals...but my protein sources aren't the greens I eat; they are merely complements to the protein I get from more protein rich sources. The protein in two eggs (14g), which you say you're getting from greens, is only about a fifth of the amount of protein I need for a daily minimum. If I had to eat 'fruits, pulses, nuts and seeds' to keep up with the 6 to 6 1/2 cups of kale, I'd be eating all day to keep up with that, AND I'd be long past Protein Power's 40g ECC/day.

Mileage will vary.

LOL, someone really likes eggs.... personally, I can't stand the way they smell and taste. Gotta get used to it for the military eventually, and I'm not looking forward to it.

There are other complete vegan proteins such as buckwheat, amaranth, quinoa, nuts/seeds, beans and algae.. I don't know how low-carb those are, though. Personally, I've started consuming whey shakes since going low-carb.

It is a misconception that you must consume all the essential amino acids in one sitting. The body stores aminos from about 2 days to use to repair muscle tissue. So as long as one consumes a varied balance of enough "incomplete" proteins in the diet, they should be fine.

The level of protein one needs has to be calculated using ideal body weight, not current body weight. Active people need about 1/2 their ideal body weight (pounds) in grams of protein a day. More sedentary people require substantially less.

However, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that veggies are just not gonna cut it. When I ate totally vegan, I would try to have a grain, legume, nut, etc. product at every meal, and also took an amino acid supplement. I'm a fairly active person and I lift weights, though--so I'm sure it was more important to me than the average bear.


Anyway, what I usually eat for protein now is nuts, tofu fried in avocado oil and whey shakes. As I said, I'm trying to force myself to learn to like eggs, too, because I will be in the military soon. It's not gourmet or glamorous, but I spend my free time working out anyway, so I just need something that's convenient and will do the job.

I realize that they aren't considered low carb, but the only non-meat food which seriously fills me up and satiates my hunger is black beans - either in soup or in dips, as in refried black beans.

They are what I craved most when I followed a 2-month Atkins Induction, so I switched to CALP so that I can have them for dinner if I wish.

Lentils occasionally are very filling, too - but not the watery soupy version.

I can understand no dairy, but why no nuts?

Possibly allergies, Wifezilla--just guessing, though.

Eva8090 wrote:


Well, the nuts/seeds and algae are the lower carb options on that list--but 'complete vegan proteins?' Nope.
quinoa from www.nutritiondata.com:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/...d-pasta/10352/2
When that protein scale is adjusted for digestibility,rted the score drops below 100. Same for buckwheat, amaranth, nuts and seeds.
You can look up your other choices; you'll see similar incomplete profiles.
Algae is a complete protein...but some would consider sea vegetables too 'living' for their vegan plans.

There are only three nutritionally 'complete' non-meat proteins which provide full digestibility and complete nutritional balance--i.e. proteins which contain within themselves the full and balanced complement of essential amino acids, as well as the macro nutrients in balance so that you aren't ingesting more carbs or fats than needed to get the protein.

Those three proteins are still, as they've been since I first started studying complementary proteins: eggs, soybeans, and protein isolate.
Soybeans are still the only 100% complete non-animal source of protein.

Those get a 100 (or a 1, depending on scale) for digestibility and therefore for protein completeness/usability.

OTOH, if you're allergic to soy, dairy or eggs, they're no joy for you either. But the whole issue of combining foods to get a complete protein will only work on a low carb plan if you can get enough protein from the combined things without taking you over your carb limits. A good protein isolate (whey, soy or egg) could be your best friend.



Well--there Drs. Mike and Mary Dan Eades (Protein Power) and most exercise/PT physiologists would disagree. The amount of protein you need should be based on your lean body mass + exercise level, basically 1g per pound of LBM x the factor for the activity level. If you don't know your LBM, you're better off planning on 0.5g/lb of current body weight, multiplied by a factor starting at 0.6 for sedentary and going up by one-tenth of a point for each level of activity over sedentary. If your body is under any level of emotional stress (and whose isn't?) or physical stress (exercise, weight loss, surgery, illness) then you should increase the activity level factor by at least one level. And yes, losing weight--especially trying to lose a LOT of weight--is considered a physical stressor.

There's a pretty good calculator of minimum protein requirements for your body at Wake Forest Medical Center's website.