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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 13:44
043ched 043ched is offline
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Stats: 199/201/160 Male 68
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Default Keto and inflamation

I posted a short time ago stating I was eating a casual low carb style. I have since switched to a stricter keto style, but still not weighing, measuring or recording macros or ketones. While I still need to lose weight, the main reason I switched was I have a lot of stiffness and I have seen mentioned that it is often caused by inflammation, which keto reduces. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with that and what that experience has been. Its only been a little more than a week, but I've seen some claims of an almost immediate change. Is it just a keto diet, it it related to a drop in blood glucose, do you have to be in ketosis, or do you need to actually lose a significant amount of weight before seeing a change.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 14:19
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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My own experience was after going low carb and a few months of being consistent, my stiffness in my finger joints especially when waking in the morning was resolved. It didn't happen overnight, and it didn't take a long time either. Each persons experiences will be different.

Let's not worry about terms of keto, as keto is simply a form of low carb. Going low carb and staying very consistent did the trick for me. In terms of not weighing, measuring, or recording macros, the only macro you need to be concerned with . . . . . drumroll . . . . is carbs. Be vigilant and dedicated to eating less than 20 carbs in a day. That's not hard to calculate. In terms of the carbs you eat, because it's hard to achieve zero carbs, make sure you're eating from the Westman recommended list of above ground veggies, particularly leafy greens, cucumbers, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, etc. You need to find carb content in everything you eat, and then stay below 20 - 40 grams per day. For you and the experiences you're having, I'd recommend staying below 20. By the way, very low carb is considered keto, but I think people sometimes place too much of a spotlight on that term as keto has become the darling of the low carb and non-low carb masses. My sense is that it differentiates itself from Atkins, which to many has a negative connotation, so it's acceptable. Go figure . . . .
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 14:40
043ched 043ched is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
In terms of not weighing, measuring, or recording macros, the only macro you need to be concerned with . . . . . drumroll . . . . is carbs. Be vigilant and dedicated to eating less than 20 carbs in a day. That's not hard to calculate. In terms of the carbs you eat, because it's hard to achieve zero carbs, make sure you're eating from the Westman recommended list of above ground veggies, particularly leafy greens, cucumbers, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, etc.


Thanks for sharing your experience. In terms of carbs, I'm not calculating or recording, but I would expect to be under 20g. As an example, I have been having eggs and bacon for breakfast, a hamburger patty topped with a fried egg and cheese for lunch, and the same for dinner. I did buy an Atkins pizza as a treat this weekend, so maybe that will inhibit my progress, but my point is I'm not really eating carbs except maybe 1 or 2 from the eggs, bacon and cheese, so I'm assuming in the keto range and when or if I incorporate vegetables back in my diet, I know I'll have to start keeping track. I've heard of Dr. Westman so I'll be sure to refer to his list.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 14:47
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 043ched
Thanks for sharing your experience. In terms of carbs, I'm not calculating or recording, but I would expect to be under 20g. As an example, I have been having eggs and bacon for breakfast, a hamburger patty topped with a fried egg and cheese for lunch, and the same for dinner. I did buy an Atkins pizza as a treat this weekend, so maybe that will inhibit my progress, but my point is I'm not really eating carbs except maybe 1 or 2 from the eggs, bacon and cheese, so I'm assuming in the keto range and when or if I incorporate vegetables back in my diet, I know I'll have to start keeping track. I've heard of Dr. Westman so I'll be sure to refer to his list.

I believe you're taking a sound approach. If you eat any veggies or other non-protein whole foods, do a carb check. You do it once, then you know forever. Better safe . . . . as they say. Good luck.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 16:40
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Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal/P:E
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Hi. I agree with Rob, you're taking a sound approach - but the source of those carbs is important when you're talking inflammation. Wheat can be murder on your joints, if that's a problem you're trying to address. "Keto" (I still kinda hate this trendy term) would do me no favours if I was eating wheat flour, and that's what the Atkins pizza is made with. If/when you eat it, pay attention to any symptoms that pop up later.

I was a LCer for years before I started having joint problems, and I had to turn it up a notch and go gluten-free. It wasn't too hard because like many LCers, I was already 90% of the way there. I just had to start reading labels a lot more carefully. I was entirely gluten-free for one full month before I tried it again (it was awful, painful lesson learned, mourning period gotten over.) You might want to hang onto that pizza for a while, maybe see if your current plan helps with the joints first, and then try it? Just an idea. It's always something you can keep in your back pocket and experiment with later. Like I said, I didn't need to do this until... I needed to. Heh, that's become a bit of a theme of mine: The way I did things worked, until it didn't work anymore. I didn't have to do (insert annoying complication here) until that day I had to.

Best of luck, keep us posted.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 17:10
043ched 043ched is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine
but the source of those carbs is important when you're talking inflammation.
If/when you eat it, pay attention to any symptoms that pop up later.
:


Sounds like good advice. I just finished the Atkins pizza, so we'll see. I prefer whole (real) food over processed but I'm thinking if an occasional Atkins product can help keep me on course then its worth a try. If it slows me down or causes any adverse effects than I'll go with out them. It should be easy to determine as it really is the only carbs (other than a minimal amount from the eggs and cheese) that I've eaten over the past week, and don't plan on having it again until next weekend.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 17:10
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dk_Swan dk_Swan is offline
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Plan: Low Carb
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I believe the Atkins Pizza is even worse than a regular crust because it contains "wheat gluten" as the first ingredient. I remember long ago I would buy this 'high gluten' low carb flour, little realizing the harm that gluten does.

Dairy can also be a culprit in inflamation/stiffness:
https://www.boldsky.com/health/well...nts-120324.html
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 17:32
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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After ditching grains, I found that legumes, especially soy and peanuts inflame my joints too. Soy is in a lot of processed foods.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 17:32
043ched 043ched is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_Swan
Dairy can also be a culprit in inflamation/stiffness:


I admit the Atkins pizza may be a bad idea, but its kind of a test. I have not been a big milk drinker but this year when I started casual low carb eating I included milk, thinking it would help me fill up so I would eat less. When my stiffness got worse, eliminating the milk was my first thought, but that morphed into a fairly strict keto. Of course, I'm still eating cheese so maybe that needs to be eliminated also.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 17:56
043ched 043ched is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
After ditching grains, I found that legumes, especially soy and peanuts inflame my joints too. Soy is in a lot of processed foods.


I don't eat a lot of processed foods but I do like peanuts and peanut butter. I'll keep that in mind before adding them back
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-20, 19:32
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
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Location: Florida
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A doctor gave me this diet.

Before I went on this diet, my inherited bursitis was so bad I couldn't walk two blocks without resting and I couldn't drive a car without a 'blue ice' block behind my hip. Now I walk 4 miles a day and can drive 8 hours with no problem.

Before I went on this diet, arthritis that set in a finger I injured playing basketball was so sore, I would skip G# notes on the saxophone so that I wouldn't have to use it. Now I have zero pain and stiffness in that finger.

A number of people I've recommended this anti-inflammatory diet to have also had very good results.

And it works with Low Carb and Keto

Here it is, if you care to follow it, I hope it works for you too.


For both arthritis and bursitis, treatment is similar:

Try the dietary approach first, and if that doesn't work, take stronger action.

Foods that may contribute to chronic inflammation are foods with a high glycemic index (foods that convert to sugar quickly), such as fruit juices, sugars, simple starches, or rice cakes, foods heavy in polyunsaturated or saturated fats, and foods high in arachidonic acid. Some specific foods to avoid are:

* Fatty cuts of red meat (high in saturated fats) lean is good
* Organ meats: liver, kidney, and so forth (very high in arachidonic acid)
* Egg yolks (very high in arachidonic acid)
* Poultry - chicken, duck, turkey (very high in arachidonic acid)
* Pasta (high glycemic index)
* Juices (high glycemic index)
* Rice, especially rice cakes (high glycemic index)
* White bread (substitute whole grain breads such as rye)
* Nightshade Plants bother many people (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, paprika)

Glycemic index charts can be found on the Internet.

Better choices are foods with a low glycemic index and foods that are heavy in monounsaturated fats. Some specific good foods are:

* Salmon and other fish
* Oatmeal
* Low glycemic fresh fruits and vegetables
* Olives and olive oil
* Peanuts and other nuts
* Whey proteins
* Lean beef is good, 100% grass fed is better
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-20, 03:53
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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If by stiffness you also have some arthritis type pain, this three part explanation on how a keto diet could help relieve it is interesting. https://crownmd.net/the-ketogenic-d...VmEUbHaF8GU5o6k. This article only refers to a ketogenic diet in general, but I also think specific foods might add to the pain and stiffness.

The focus is on reducing blood glucose and insulin resistance, something that can happen well before weight loss (it did for me). In addition to a very low carb diet overall, test certain foods, but two that bother me are alcohol and Peanuts (very high in lectins) Wheat gluten is probably the worse for lectins, Soy too, but those are not part of my diet. The nightshade plants have lectins too but a few tomatoes and peppers in a salad don’t bother me, other foods on Bob's list also cause no problems for me. After starting a ketogenic diet, which eliminates some of the big offenders, then try an elimination diet for you.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Apr-25-20 at 04:07.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-20, 05:46
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
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Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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I had a dramatic downturn in my autoimmune condition during a very stressful time when I got off track with my eating. I got dramatic results with a three day fast, followed by meat & salt only for three weeks. Then I started a strict program of adding on ONE food item, over days. I wanted to really get a handle on what I can't eat.

I've now restricted myself to salad greens and low sugar botanical fruits as the plant-based food I can eat. I avoid all gluten, lectins, most nightshades (cooked tomato sauce seems okay) and soy in all its demonic forms.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-20, 07:09
043ched 043ched is offline
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Stats: 199/201/160 Male 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
A doctor gave me this diet.

Before I went on this diet, my inherited bursitis was so bad I couldn't walk two blocks without resting and I couldn't drive a car without a 'blue ice' block behind my hip. Now I walk 4 miles a day and can drive 8 hours with no problem.

[/I]


That's an amazing result. Thanks for sharing.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Apr-25-20, 07:14
043ched 043ched is offline
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Posts: 26
 
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Stats: 199/201/160 Male 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
If by stiffness you also have some arthritis type pain, this three part explanation on how a keto diet could help relieve it is interesting. https://crownmd.net/the-ketogenic-d...VmEUbHaF8GU5o6k. This article only refers to a ketogenic diet in general, but I also think specific foods might add to the pain and stiffness.



I don't know weather to call it arthritis. It's mostly in my hips and lower back. It's not debilitating but it can get uncomfortable. I did ask my doctor about it and she ordered x-rays of my hips and back and did not find anything. While the doctor did not suggest a diet change, it seems like inflammation would fit. I haven;t looked at the link yet but I will check it out.
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