After my last post, I decided to concentrate more on an anti-inflammatory diet and less on weight loss. That's not to say they are mutually exclusive, just where my priority is right now. What that means for me, is that I am eating low carb, but not targeting a specific carb level as long as I stick to foods on the anti-inflammatory list. That may not be relative to my question, but that is the background. When I was eating anything, I would often have some type of desert or sweet as a signal to my brain that I was through eating. Since eliminating that from my diet, I sometimes find it hard to stop eating. The standard keto answer is to eat fat until satiated, but that doesn't seem to trigger my stop eating signal, not to mention that the anti-inflammatory diet limits the type of fat (avocado, nuts, olive oil, coconut oil, etc is OK). Any suggestions on how to turn on the stop eating signal?

Good question!

Wish I could give you a hard and fast rule.
I am inconsistent
Some days I feel full and that stops me
Other days on the same foods, I am hungry all day
Some days I am not hungry at all so I don't eat
Since I am basically a level 4 carnivore, none of this makes sense

I too am looking for better health, in addition to weight loss.

According to Dr. Robert Cywes, cant remember exact spelling, he states that ALL carbohydrates trigger the addicted brain that enjoys dopamine hits. He suggests lowest carbohydrate intake to quiet the beast. And find other methods to fullfil the brains need for a hit, he uses sipping a cup of coffee to fill the need.

Dr Fung talks about how both protein and carbohydrates bump up insulin.

Have you tried very low carb and shorten the eating window? Getting into a sufficient level of ketosis does reduce the hunger and thinking about food. Dr Fung talks about using what works for each person : 12 hr not eating , or16 or 18or 20or longer.

For me, I know when Im eating effectively when Im no longer thinking "food" nearly constantly. And time between meals stretches......and meals get smaller. And I must keep carbs very very low.

I realize this doesnt directly address your question :the signal that meal is done and you are satisfied..... My bet is the meals contain too many carbs, even if on the anti- inflammatory list. Insulin is very inflammatory. Lowering insulin might be helpful.

Thanks. I had to look up level 4 carnivore, and it seems to mean testing your response to meats other than beef, eggs, dairy and coffee/tea. Have you noticed any change in your hunger as you went through the levels?

I would have to say "not really". My first post here mentioned that I was eating a casual low carb, with a 16/8 IF, and the replies caused me to rethink that and adopt a stricter and more deliberate low carb diet. My second post was to ask about inflammation and one of the replies suggested trying an anti-inflammatory diet for 30 days, which is what I am doing now. I guess you could say I have bounced around a bit, but for now, I am committed to trying the anti-inflammatory diet at least until the end of May. If I see improvement, I will try to maintain the basic premise while making some changes to also focus on weight loss, e.g. lower carb, stricter IF. If I don't see an improvement, I will have to reevaluate, e.g. strict keto, maybe carnivore? Its fair to say I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm working on it.

This is a good place to learn.

Dr Atkins wrote DANDR, one of the early drivers of very low carb eating for life. He is clear that very low carb is anti inflammatory and in the first two weeks of Induction the weight loss is mostly warer loss. Dumps the fluids associated with inflammation.

Living keto dies not mean weight loss. Many mainrain weight via keto level carbs, and super athletes are also focused on keto. Not as weight loss but for performance.

Trying to point out keto can be maintenance, weight loss or performance and all are about fueling the body without much carbs.....very low carbs.

For what its worth, I dumped seed oils and only use minimally processed meat and veg oils : tallow, evoo, butter and the like.

Have you tried a four day Fat Fast the Fung way. Only eat bacon , eggs, olives and avocado for 4 days? Designed to jump start the keto journey.

You know you need lots of water and a good salt, like a himalayin salt or celtic salt.....

I have never had a reliable stop eating switch. I have relied on portion control, counting carbs, and tracking. It might sound like a lot of work but I’ve done it for so long it’s like second nature to me. It works because although I might never have that full feeling I am also never ravenous like I was when I ate a lot of high carb food.

No
I stick with beef, pork, a little cheese and a little cream
Eggs cause the runs

When I first started with low-carb eating, I was kind of the same as you. I really wanted something sweet at the end of the day. We were never huge dessert eaters (once in a while, never every day), but once I went low-carb and dropped all sweets, I really missed the occasional "treat." In those days, I relied on the small half-cup servings of sugar-free jello with a squirt of real whipped cream. That hit the spot for me. After a while, that taste of sweet at the end of the day didn't seem so important, and over time I stopped having the jello.

No, it's not "clean" in that it's fake food with artificial sweeteners, but it helped me in the beginning. Good luck to you!

Hi Ched. Something I've found, and other folks would probably agree, that the foods that shut off your hunger signal vs food that makes you want too much, is very highly subjective. Good example for me would be cream cheese or peanut butter: some people can't even have that in the house because they'll binge, but those are good add-ons for me that shut the hunger down. I think those foods work for me because I associate them with being sweet, but they aren't really. It's like tricking my brain into feeling desserty without the desserty sugar affects.

If you're referring to Bob-o-rama's doctor's anti-inflammatory diet, there are some foods on there I wouldn't touch with a 10-ft pole. You're probably figuring this out right about now. It's a matter of figuring out your "yes" and "no" foods. When I was battling chronic tendonitis in my shoulders a year ago, eliminating seed oils, all grains and nuts seemed to help a lot, while making sure I got my fish oil. I don't get enough u3s otherwise. I also loaded up on extra gelatin and collagen. YMMV, of course. I still feel a little bit of the tendonitis here and there, but it's very mild and I can now lift things and even do push-ups again!

Best of luck.

I agree with everything posted above. No sugar or grains works for most, but not all of the "legal" foods allowed work the same way for everyone. You need to figure out your own list of foods that fill you without causing cravings.

A bushel of leafy greens never "tricked" my stomach/body/brain into thinking it was full. I need fat and animal protein.

Dairy derails many. For me it is not the fat, it is the proteins & milk solids. I love butter, but never get the urge to eat a whole stick or pound, but I can easily/compulsively eat that much cream cheese or cheese. Not because my brain tells me to, but the casomorphins, chemicals & hormones in my body tell me to. Most intolerances are due to the body confusing one protein for another resulting in inflammatory attacks to protect the body.

Grains, Soy, peanuts and other legumes are also problematic for me, causing joint pain, stiffness & swelling. Too many "nightshade" vegetables, especially tomatoes do the same.

I do occasionally indulge in my problem foods, but in small amounts outside my home, or in limited amounts that I bring home.

The "stop eating signal" is not an obvious signal like "I'm stuffed" or "full" or "couldn't eat another bite". It is just an interest in getting on to the rest of your day and not thinking about food until hours later, when hunger pangs hit.

It's probably more of a craving than filling up. I can be full, but my brain is still telling me to eat. Having a sweet and coffee to end the meal is really more about routine than being satiated or full. I guess I just need to break that habit.

I used very low carb desserts for a long time because, well, as a baker, sweet desserts filled my life UNTIL I read DANDR. My shelf of cookbooks now gather dust.

Coffee is no longer half cream and sugar. Cream and AS instead for sone 15 years. Now, years later, I can drink black coffee without gagging. lol

Maybe try a handful of new vlc desserts to end your meals. And maybe wean away from sweets to end your meal.......took me years, and I rarely eat sweets now when in full on keto eating. ( A goof up leads to cookie and fruit binges, sigh.)

You will find what works for you.....

Since I've done this, and I'm over a year into Carnivore, I can say yes, hunger changes.

When I was moving up from green tea, coconut oil, beef, and salt, I added things ONE at a time over days. And one of the signs of a food which is bad for you can be cravings and messed up hunger signals.

BIG responses, like my body to lectins (!) are easy to spot. I feel like I've been poisoned, and I basically have.

But others are more subtle. I added some shredded cabbage, and it seemed to go okay. That became a staple, at a sort of condiment level, with pork. But when I found a good source for ground pork at a low price, I ate it more; and my cabbage and leafy greens consumption began to ratchet up. I kept adding more to the plate.

It got to the point that my fiber intolerance kicked in, and I stopped eating cabbage and leafy greens entirely. And my odd cravings and hunger prodding also went away. The kind of thing that makes you prowl the kitchen because you are vaguely hungry but not enough for a meal.

As Kristine and deirdra pointed out, this can be different for everyone. From what you describe, I'd try a meal that is just beef and salt, and see how that goes for satiety signals. Warning you that, at first, it can be a LOT.

I would have a meal of a pound of grass-fed hamburger. I'd eat the whole thing and be very satisfied, and that would be my one meal of the day. Now, I'd be more likely to break the same thing into two meals. But what had always held me back from Carnivore previously was the size of the meals I seemed to want: but they were all meat, and this was what my body needed. I had a huge deficit to make up, perhaps

It's not just the hunger signal that says "stop eating." It's also the hunger signal that goes away, and stays away, for long periods.

I have 2 older cats - one has the stop signal - the other does not.
The one without the stop signal browses the dry kibble all day long. I put out a small amount of canned food in the morning. No matter how much I put in the dish, the cat with the stop signal stops eating when he is satisfied, leaving the rest of the food for the cat who has no stop signal and who eats his own portion and cleans up the left overs from the other cat.

This suggests to me that the stop signal may be genetic.

My own stop signal varies from day to day. Unpredictable since I eat the same thing day after day. Little variation.