Hi
I've been on Weight Watchers since November and Atkins since April and have lost 35 pounds--whoppee--have 78 more to go!!But now I'm beginning to founder and flounder [!] after reading the "Paleo Diet"--I feel totally confused now...

Paleo chap says that low carb fad diets [Atkins?] only work short term because after initial weight loss, due to fluid retention release as person goes off carbs and other nasty things, weight stabilizes.

Eating fat is bad for you, he says, and you must eat only low fat cuts of meat and no dairy products or legumes and LOADS of fruit and vegetables.

I looked in the index and there is no mention of ketosis--doesn't Atkins say you must eat fat to burn fat--

But does this mean unsaturated fat?

Weight Watchers recommend 22 points of fat a day--that's the equivalent of 10 tablespoons of oil

I lost really well by counting fat points from ww booklet and following Atkins, but struggled with daily dairy products which I am intolerant to--

I thought Paleo diet would be better option but am confused about opposing information

DO you have to cut down on calories to lose weight on Atkins? Is there a limit to fat calories you should have in one day?

I haven't lost any weight this whole month as I am dithering about what to do now that I have read Paleo Diet--feel really confused about red meat and eggs as I have read that an acid in them can drive up your BP as mine is high....

Thank you
Kae

Hi Kae

Sometimes reading low carb books you find that a single picture comes together and then reading others questions arise as they seem to be coming from different directions.

Anyway, a Paleo diet - I've read Neanderthin - really means eating like they did back then. Thus they had very little dairy products and would just eat the meat and fish they hunted, the vegetables they grew and the fruits and berries as they were in season. This is a very pure way of life and many see it as too restrictive. The way of life naturally restricts carbs, but not necessarily to a level where the body is in ketosis.

There has been a lot of negative press about Atkins over the year and some do call it a fad diet. However, he has never expected people to live on very low carbs for the rest of their life, just in the induction phase. Atkins gets you into ketosis at the start and aims to keep you there until you have lost all your excess pounds. Whilst other low carb plans restrict carbs the carb levels are different and I am still uncertain as to the necessity of being in ketosis to loose that extra fat. After all ketosis just shows that you are burning fat rather than carbs and the fat can be dietry or your own.

Loosing weight is certainly a delicate balance. I lost pounds quite easily at first and then stalled. I found that whilst not eating too many carbs I was eating too many calories. Using Fitday.com I noted that I was averaging 2,200 calories a week when I was not loosing. In the activities section it told me that my basal amount was just under 1600 kcal with around 800 kcals for my sedentary lifestyle. I know that I must not eat less than 1600 kcals, otherwise I will stall as my body protects itself from starvation. I know that 2,200 is too much, so by trial and error I have found that I loose weight with an average of around 1900 kcal per day. I try to keep my carbs between 20 and 30.

Fat is good for your body. It improves your skin and hair condition amongst other things, however, I think you can have too much and give your body too much to burn. I suspect that it is best to keep your fat ratio at around 60%, carbohydrates around 5% and then increase your protein level to 30% or just above.

Exactly what works for you is a delicate balance. All fats were not created equal and unsaturated fats, such as in avocados and olive oil are better for you than monosaturated fats (found in meat) and polysaturated (margarines, etc). However, unless you want to cut off visible fat from your meat I would not worry to much about this at this stage. I have no problem with eggs, but these can effect others.

If you want to remove things from your way of life it is probably wise to do it one thing at a time and see the result before removing the next item.

I hope this helps Kae and every success for the future. May those pounds get mobile and fall away.

Well said Anne!

Kae, when you read low-carb books, keep in mind that each book competes with the other in a way. Almost every single LC plan, will call the others "fad diets" and they are bad, short term, bla bla bla, and then they go on explaining their version of low-carb These statements are usually added by the publisher, not the author, or at least authors are "advised" to say something like that, simply to market the book against other more popular LC plans.

Don't let that bother you. As long as you can read one or more and make your judgement as to which one is right for you, you should be fine.

For Paleo way of eating, Audette's Neanderthin is a much more open-minded and objective book, than Cordain's "Paleo Diet". Cordain's book is almost about what his diet isn't, than what Paleo really is I wouldn't recommennd that book, except for those already familiar with several LC books and methods.

If you haven't visited our comparison/summaries page, check it out here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...lans/index.html

Wa'il

if you follow them correctly. The question is which one is best for you and only you.

Do you want a DIET or a new way of eating that you can adhere to and actually want to follow? Remember that when you go OFF a diet the weight WILL come back. After all, the reason you need a diet is the way you were eating to start with. When you accomplish your goal of a lower weight and go back to eating the "normal" way, you will be right back where you started and more. It doesn't matter if you were following Atkins, WW, PP or _______(fill in the blank).

Which ever one you follow, you've come to a great place for support and advice. Ask and you shall receive. Wish you luck.

Dear towerprncs,

You think reading diet books is confusing. You should try reading the scientific studies on nutrition that these doctors have to come to some conclusion about and base their books on. There is a lot of controversy out there.

Knowledge is power and the more you read and learn, the more the whole thing will come together for you and you'll decide what's best for you.

With most diets that are not lowcarb (even weight watchers), your total calorie count will be diminished from what you were eating previously. This may even be true with low carb diets. However, there are studies that have proven that on a low carb ketogenic diet, it is possible to eat more calories than the other diets and still lose weight.

About unsaturated fat: There are three basic types of fat. 1. Saturated 2. Polyunsaturated 3. Monounsaturated.

On a ketogenic diet, theoretically, most of the fat you eat is going to be used right away and not stored because you are not eating any carbs. Carbs create a fuel in your body called glucose. Without carbs there is no glucose so your body can only use fat as fuel by changing the fat to ketone bodies. Now most ketones need either glucose or insulin to store the fat as fat (according to a recent study I posted on the Research forum). Since most of the fat won't be able to store as fat, it is flushed out of the urinary tract. Eating large amounts of fat in the presence of more carbs would mean your body could store the fat. Therefore, on a ketogenic low carb diet, you can eat more fat than on weight watchers. It won't store.

The book Protein Power puts into perspective the different kinds of fat. Yes, unsaturated fats are better than saturated fat because unsaturated fats raise the good cholesterol (HDL) and/or lower bad cholesterol (LDL). The thing is that a porterhouse steak has 1/2 saturated fat and 1/2 unsaturated fat, so it isn't bad for you. UNLESS you have a reaction to arachidonic acid found in red meats and egg yolk. If you do have an allergy to arachidonic acid, your blood pressure may not go down until you cut out red meat and egg yolk. But you don't know until you try LCing for a length of time and if your blood pressure doesn't go down, you may have this problem.

LCing can be made slightly healthier for everyone if they ate only egg whites and chicken and fish and olive oil, but for the majority, the red meat and egg yolks are not a problem anyway.

Hope this helps.

Ugh, PaleoDiet is a really badly written book.

I'm with you tower, I'm new to Paleo as well and was really confused and disheartened by Cordain's book. Read NeanderThin instead. It doesn't slam other lc woe's, and is written in a commonsensical style.

I've started paleo because lc'ing, while working for me, turned the phrase 'slow-loser' to a whole new meaning. in the three days I've been on paleo I've lost three lbs! Of course, there's no guarentee it my weight won't go up again, but it's the biggest whoosh I've *ever* had, and that pleases me to no end.

Your PaleoPal,

Dryad, who did mention she was a newbie too, right?

Looks like you got a lot of good advice!!!



In the end you have to do what works for you. I was constantly sick eating a "normal diet" and improved with low carb, but I had to go paleo (drop wheat & dairy) to keep from getting sick/sinus problems/ear infections.

Cordain's book I don't follow. I gave it away. Neanderthing I follow, going for meat, lotsa fat, low low carbs. As well, you might want to check out Charles Hunt's Diet Evolution (I think that is what it is called). An easy read.

www.danjohn.org/coach has a section called the meat, leaves, & berries diet. They do use some cheese & cream in their coffee, but are a wonderful couple who follow close to paleo, and have fitness they follow that works with paleo. And it's free!!!

Good luck!
--Lizzie

Hi Kae,

After losing 26 lbs in 2 months on Atkins I've learned a lot. A few things I would suggest are:

Read the book Life Without Bread - it's a very interesting read and explains how much fat, carbs and protein a body needs in a day. They advocate eating 72g of carbs per day but maintain that you will not lose weight rapidly at that level. However, they also say that you can eat as much fat as you'd like and give several studies that indicate that the more fat you eat, the more fat you burn.

First on Atkins I was eating the 20g of carbs as suggested but only got a trace of ketones on the ketostix.(I was also unconsciously eating low fat since I've been doing this for 10 years now!!) This was very discouraging for me, however, after reading the book suggested, I ate lots of fat and my rate of burning ketones increased a little. I am insulin resistant so I did a little research. In the book suggested above they suggest supplements of l-carnitine and CoQ10 to increase fat burning at the cellular level. After doing this for 2 days, eating no more than 40g of carbs per day and eating mega fat I'd broken a plateau that had lasted for 1 month and my energy level has greatly increased.

To summarize, eat all the fat you'd like and more! Dr. Atkins is a heart specialist and he advocates this as a number of other leaders who are not afraid to go against popular thinking. In my view, I've done the popular doctor's thing for 10 years with disasteruos results, now I know I'm on to a good thing, I feel better, I'm losing weight at a rate which I can attain without a struggle and starvation and best of all, I'm losing weight where I need to lose it.

Good luck - stick with it, you're on the right track now!!!

vlt

... I do much better on meats and salads type eating. I feel better, fat melts off, and I feel better, and fat melts off.... oh, yeah!!!!

I think the hardest part is finding what works for you. My sister has the same chemical makeup as me, as when I ate as she did (crap, ice cream, lots of carbs, little meat) I bloated up. But when I started eating mostly meat, the fat slipped off. And now that I know what works for me (higher fat, carbs from salads/green veggies) i'm doing much better.

Good luck!!!

--Lizzie