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  #16   ^
Old Sat, Feb-01-20, 20:37
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,956
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Thanks for the explanation and the interesting link.

Still, peer-review surely must be better than someone who grows corn, invents a company with a scientific name and tells you you should be eating corn instead of chicken.

So who do you believe?

My brother-in-law has published about 100 articles, and some of what he has pioneered in orthopedics are now being used all over the world. If he didn't publish, nobody else would know about them.

He started lengthening bones on deformed children, and now has new techniques for adult broken bones with cages, 3d printed parts, and so on. He's explained it all to me, along with pictures, and although I don't understand it all, I get enough to see the miracles that were not possible even 15 years ago.

But as you pointed out, there is good and bad in everything.

Bob
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Feb-02-20, 07:24
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,609
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
And, in this day and age of scrambling for research dollars, NOBODY has the time or money to merely duplicate someone else's published work to figure out if they get the same results. Everybody is trying to push the envelope and do something new because that's the only way to get research grants. So, at best, they'll take published results and try to replicate them only to the extent necessary to then add on some other step that goes just a little bit further. And, when a second scientist cannot replicate something that has been published in a respected peer-reviewed journal, he is usually told "you must be doing something wrong." Nobody ever wants to believe that maybe the published work was wrong in the first place!


Just my 2cents.... well, maybe $2


I find this well-informed and right on the nose. Because how did all that research pile up that constantly claimed low fat/high carb was better for health? Because it was constantly "comparing Roman Meal to Wonder bread" kinds of research. Because everyone knew saturated fat was bad for you!

Perhaps, as Mark Twain observed, it is better not to know so much than to know so many things that aren’t so.

Yes, fruit is better than snack food. Yes, vegetables have more vitamins than cake. Yes, we should eat processed food "in moderation." And I know people who do that, and seem to stay slim and healthy and active. Some of them do and some of them drop dead from sudden cardio-vascular issues that were lurking all along.

It has happened to people I know often enough that I think my tendency to put on fat in response to such a food plan actually might have saved my life; my A1C was getting higher and so was my pants size and that drove me to desperation: Atkins.

People cling to what they think they know when they keep on with their present eating plan, be that VEGAN (look at all this research in the New York Times!) or their version of the SAD.

All I can say in response is that their "peer-reviewed gold standard" runs 20 years behind the cutting edge of the curve, and I don't have that kind of time.

I need the curve.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Feb-02-20, 08:11
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
well, maybe....


My Ex was the admin for the head of a major diabetes research lab. According to her, the post-docs were given the articles for peer review. The post-docs were doing research that supported previously published papers by the 'expert' whom they worked for. Human nature being what it is, A research paper that did not support the direction of the post-doc work - and was critical of the expert's previous work - would get a more critical review than one that supported the direction of the lab's current efforts.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Feb-02-20, 10:20
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,956
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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So everything you read is under suspect for being false.

It's hard to figure out what is right and what is propaganda.

Bob
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Feb-02-20, 10:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,609
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
So everything you read is under suspect for being false.

It's hard to figure out what is right and what is propaganda.

Bob


If you are starting from scratch: yes. But it doesn’t take long to figure out how things fit together; and that’s how we construct a sensible world view.

I was open to Atkins because I’d tried and tried the way Authorities were tell me to eat; which NEVER worked the way they said it would. So now, I look for the science that I know works: and I can recognize and dismiss the weasely ways people try to pass off bad science: from the outright lies of vegans to the cries of the medicine peddlers who have only a hammer.

By this point I have years of study behind me in what actually works. Anything that wants me to change that has to have a plausible base to work from.

Atkins convinced me with the science, but also in how it all fit together. He explained how I’d lose weight, but also why I was so hungry after eating, and so tired in the middle of the day.

The truth fits together. Lies, don’t.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Feb-02-20, 10:58
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 19,179
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
My Ex was the admin for the head of a major diabetes research lab. According to her, the post-docs were given the articles for peer review. The post-docs were doing research that supported previously published papers by the 'expert' whom they worked for. Human nature being what it is, A research paper that did not support the direction of the post-doc work - and was critical of the expert's previous work - would get a more critical review than one that supported the direction of the lab's current efforts.



What I saw in research was the young ones must conform to the egos of the elder " scientists" .

There are or were some good ones. One woman I new was a well respected PhD and daughter of a Nobel prize winner.....but again, if a young researcher wants to work with such a person, how must they conform....

Everything was about pleasing the boss, .... and getting funding.

My brother quit a full boat PhD program after one semester when he fully realized the job insecurity based on finding funding----- made a boat load as a pharmacist instead of scraping the bottom,
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Feb-03-20, 09:59
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
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Posts: 2,312
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Still, peer-review surely must be better than someone who grows corn, invents a company with a scientific name and tells you you should be eating corn instead of chicken.

So who do you believe?


I would agree that peer-review is better than nothing. But accepting, without question, ANYTHING written by ANYBODY is problematic.

I think the best we can do is approach everything with a certain degree of caution, always asking ourselves "what does this person stand to GAIN by taking this position and/or by convincing me and others to agree with his/her claims?"

And we have to test new ideas and see for ourselves whether they hold up to scrutiny.

Whether we embrace the concept or not, life truly IS an n=1 experiment!
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