Hello Cimorene

Your reply to this post is one of honesty, thats for sure! You sounded so much like me. I too am 50 and have had this habit for many years. I never sit and get ossified drunk either. I have always consumed the same amount of wine.... not usually more than 2 or 3 glasses, unless we are out to dinner at at a party eating foods for a while, which is a rare thing. I too have my limit.
As I have mentioned before, I never drink during the day, as I could not function. I save it for the hours before bed when I just want to unwind and get sleepy . For me, it helps....or maybe I am just fooling myself. I do hope you take time to read all of the replys to this post, everyone has made an effort to be caring and honest with their thoughts on this subject. As I have stated before, I am so glad I started this post. When I first thought about it, I was afraid people would think I was just a weak willed lady tryoing to make excuses for loving wine and being fat!
O'Susana

I have now waded through another bunch of posts in this thread--and intend to get them all, because it's important stuff--and although I see a few preachy ones, and a few people getting their buttons pushed, I hope that stays at a minimum, because what I mostly see is some really honest and painful processing, including my own, and I think that's great, because that's what this foum is for. Now: I have something to share, and I want to tell you that I seldom share this information about myself, because it can really backfire, but here it is: I am a mental health clinician and chemical dependency therapist. Now, before you run screaming or tell me I have major problems both ethically and professionally, let me remind you that I am "off duty" here, and that I am very much a human being, as can obviously be seen if you read my first post in this thread. The reason I am sharing this information (and I do so with trepidation, given past experience) is because it is a topic I have looked at very deeply, and continue to look at. I work with people who have pretty much destroyed their lives with substance abuse: they have done jail time, had their kids taken away, destroyed their marriages, gone backrupt and/or destroyed themselves physically. After years of research and listening, I honestly do believe that whether or not alcohol is a problem is a very, very subjective thing, and I'm not seeing a lot of that really end-of-the-road stuff here. But someone once said to me that "you're an alcoholic if alcohol is causing problems in your life." This is an extreme statement, but what it leads me to conclude is that it's up to me whether alcohol is a problem for me. Not for everyone, because if a person gets drunk and kills a child, then alcohol is very much a problem. But there is a continuum, and for those of us who have a sort of "social habit," possibly complicated by a carb addiction, the question is one of priorities, i.e., which is worth more to me, to lose weight faster, or to have that hour or so in the evening when I chill out with my glass of wine? In my opinion, that's the difference. For eons, human beings have used alcoholic substances of one kind or another for celebration and comfort. Perhaps the attitude is what matters: one Japanese philosopher suggested that we should only drink to celebrate; that is we drink to comfort ourselves, we are poisoning ourselves. I can resonate to this, and choose to continue in my ongoing self-examination, coupled with self-respect and, hopefully, honesty.

Thank-you, Cimorene for your honest and personal post. I enjoyed your first post this morning/afternoon and the latest one just now. I imagine you struggle with your work vs. your personal choices from time to time. Though my work is not social, raising my two children is, very much so! I struggle with my personal decisions vs. what I want my children to learn about alcohol. We are very open with them about most everything including responsible drinking, and in my OPINION, responsible means legal. I am rambling a bit-sorry. Anyway, I truly appreciate your (IMHO) healthy outlook on the decision we all make of to drink or not to drink. It wasn't all that long ago that I came to the same conclusion that my drinking habit wasn't any different than my overeating/junk food habit. Now, I just have to decide where my priorities are. As I have mentioned in previous posts, LCing has actually helped lessen my desire for alcohol. But summer time is here and social drinking is a popular past time

Once again, thanks for such honesty! I hope this forum is as safe a place for you as it has been for all of us.

Thanks for your wise and supportive post. Although the work I do is so much a part of me--and can't help but spill over into this kind of dialogue--I have learned that when people hear what I do, they tend to either (a) back way up, afraid that I'm psychonalysing everything they say (I go off duty too!), or resent me because they had a bad therapist once and still haven't gotten over it, or (c) see me as some kind of authority with a superior knowledge (ha!)......... The best one is when it's (d). That's when I just get to be a regular person who is at least as screwed up as anyone else, and accordingly treated like that regular person. Even better is when I get to talk as well as listen.... You don't suppose that's why I'm hanging around here, do you?

P.S. My seond day of low-carbing wasn't as pristine as my first, but it was pretty darn good. I just need to be willing to cook........

I think I'm the one who wrote the 'preachy' note here! I do apologize -- it was not meant to be. I had just finished readinga very interesting book on alcoholism and addiction, and was bursting with new information that I felt I just HAD to share!! (Should learn to keep my mouth shut! )

Anyhow, I think you two have really hit the nail on the head here. Most people do not have a life-destroying problem with alcohol -- perhaps some of us feel we drink too much on occasion and are questioning it, but that's a good thing, isn't it? Like any other indulgence, it can get out of hand -- I could eat a whole bag of Wavy Lays at one sitting if I let myself, but normally I don't (for obvious reasons! )

I personally have always enjoyed drinking, and it's only been lately (and even moreso since LCing) that I've been examining it. I would NEVER try to tell someone what to do in that regard.

In the end, I do believe that if it feels like a problem then it might be, but then again it might just be part of a larger problem -- like what you're doing with your life right now, or as you have said, whether or not it's interfering with your weight loss efforts.
If it gives you pleasure and it's not causing trouble, why not?

Peace,

Joanna

Hello again to all who care about this thread,

Just by being involved here, and realizing I am only one in a number of people who seem to be worried about a problem I might or might not have .....I think I have come to discover that my problem is not as bad as I thought. We as humans tend to rely too much on what our peers think of us, and tell us. We look to each other for knowledge and answers, and that is good, untill we let others decide for us what is correct. We all possess the natural instinct of right or wrong, good or bad. I have realized here, that I am OK with my drinking, I don't abuse it and have come to see that the reason for saving it for the evening, is just my way of finishing my day. If I get a little buzz from it at night, I know I don't have to go anywhere but to my bed. I have never driven a car or have been in any way abusive when I drink....I just do it because I totally enjoy it, and it does relax me. I, at one time complained to my doctor that I was concerned about my drinking because of all the warnings about women drinking in moderation, and that they should avoid drinking more than one 4oz glass a day, He laughed at me and said, if it relaxes you and it keeps you from taking (chemical) tranquilizers to sleep better, there is no harm in it. As long as you have a limit, and you know you are not abusing it. I actually have always questioned his statement here, because the world has become so over analyzing about everything, it almost makes us all obsessive about everything we do.
Losing weight for me was never a big challange, when I needed to do it I did it. I am going through pre menopause now and have gained weight, the thing is it is not coming off no matter what I do! I am blaming the wine...it makes sense because I have come to understand that alcohol turns to sugar and is burned first, so it gets most of the attention from my body as far as losing fat goes. I know this, I just have to decide now how I go about giving up something I love doing in order to lose weight. I am losing, but rather slowly. I also have discovered, as have many others, that I cannot drink as much, because then I do get drunk...I don't like being drunk, I like being relaxed and sleepy when it's time for bed.
I think if you are knowing that you have a problem....HONESTLY KNOWING...then you might just have a problem, if you are like me and asking other people, because of guilty thoughts, then maybe you do not! Who says we should not take time to enjoy the things in life that make us feel good? Life is just too short! If drinking wine makes you feel bad.... then maybe there IS a problem. So far i have not felt bad about it, not even hung over... only guilty....because I am told that I should not be doing it.
I am sorry that this is so long, but after reading all these replys, I had a light bulb moment and it actually lifted me! I know what I have to do in order to lose weight at a faster pace. I can choose to stop, and get along without the wine and drive myself crazy because I want it, or I can continue on and lose slowly and accept that! The thing is now I know I'm OK and to me that's what matters most. Thank you every one, for helping me with my discovery O'suzana

WoW Osuzana! Has this thread been great or what!!!??? I am so pleased for you and your self-discovery. Feeling guilty and beating up on ourselves are very unproductive ways to live our lives.

Joanna, I for one was not offended by your posts of information concerning alcohol. I believe knowledge is a good thing. We all know there are people in this world who have a zero tolerance for alcohol. There are people in this world who have had alcohol destroy their lives and the lives of others. There is a full spectrum of people and the kind of choices they make regarding alcohol. None of those people are wrong unless their choices are hurting their lives or the lives of others.

For me, I don't believe in getting drunk (I hate the feeling and it is against my belief system), I do enjoying drinking, I can afford it and I don't allow it to interfere in my life. I am cognizant of how it may look to my children as they are approaching their teens, and peer pressure for drinking is very tough to deal with. Teens and alcohol is a very scary combination!

Thanks to all those who post here for some great discussions!

I just thought i'd thank everyone for al their input in this fantastic thread!!!!! I really have enjoyed reading and sharing and although i haven't posted lately i come back regularly and see all these "similar" people worrying about what the rest of the world think s about our drinking habits.

It sometimes feels like madness, that it is perfectly normal for a man to have a couple of pints of beer or a couple of cns whilst watching the match - but we ( and we are almost all women i think) feel guilty for 2 or 3 glasses or yummy fruity red wine as an evening treat.

I have been monitoring my intake for a while as my mom made a few comments when i bought some cases (12 bottles) of wine from a wine club. I admit we (me and tom) did drink the first one in about 1 month so three bottles a week ( with friends too) . My mom said i was an alcoholic! I felt terrible and didn't want to have the wine delivered to her house so she couldn't say anything.!!! Mad!!! But i have come to realise over these last few weeks that if i can go without ( and at times i can! though at present it's hard!) then i can choose to go without.

It's frustrating that i can cut out such foods as i do for LCing but one simple thing (wine) i just can't !

I've become more aware of what i'm drinking but i'm not being to strict with myself at the moment......... and i'm not THAT bothered! I am being brutally honest there. When i opened wine previously i could finish a bottle in an hour, and not feel too bad until it HIT ME! Then i'd be really ill and feel terrible to go to bed.........often feeling sick. So i have got to the point where i CAN have 2 glasses while i watch TV and then stop and have a nice coffee and i feel fine and not dissappointed with myself for being "out of Control" or whatever.

I know i'm rambling too ( it's the wine!!!!!!!!no i haven't had any today!) but it is a very emotive subject and i could go one for hours. I've said my piece so i'd better let you all get on.

Speak to you all again soon ( i'm sure)
Phoebe

If they made a non-alcoholic merlot wine, I'd have no problem giving up the alcohol version. I'm mostly hooked on the flavor of wine.

This has been a great thread and only validates what was stated before. Drink to enhance your life, not to dilute it.
Jane

I just wanted to mention that I work pretty closely with the Alcoholics Anonymous program, because of my work, and I believe it is an incredible spiritual program that is a gift to humanity. I feel that AA has done a huge service to the world in educating people about alcohol abuse. I believe in the 12-Step way of life, and I feel immeasurably enriched by it. HOWEVER, AA has become a kind of religion, as such movements often do. And the essence of "religions" often gets lost in the interpretations of the followers. The information and philosophy of AA tends to get over-interpreted and pushed too far by some overzealous followers, and people who are prone to guilt in the first place are easy marks for this kind of "guilt-trip." Despite the good that AA does, I have seen people hurt by AA members who take its philosophy and turn it into what they need it to be according to their own need for power and control and security. But that isn't AA. That's people. I am grateful for that program, and I always caution people to "take what they need and leave the rest," and the "rest" permeates our society.

I really hope this thread isn't winding down but I have to admit I've been following without participating lately.

Since this thread has been going I have really relaxed my attitude about my drinking, which for some reason has made me feel more in control than when I was beating myself up daily and resolving to reform. The only "rule" I'm following is not to pour a glass of wine before my husband comes home for dinner, and since I'm busy making the dinner it's not a hard one to follow.

And I'm showing an extremely slow & steady weight loss, which is better than the jumping up and down it was doing for the last several months. I'm in the last 10# so it's tough.

Anyway, this thread has really helped me and I'm grateful to you all.

Janis

I hope everyone carries on posting because i have found this a great place to just open up and be honest about some stuff which has previously worried me "silly"!

So i hope everyone still reads and posts because i think it can only help everyone to appreciate what everyone else is thinking and feeling and it can only be good.

Take care

Phoebe

Hey Janis

I really hope it's not slowing down either....it has been So interesting! I too have relaxed on the wine. It's like I was really trying to take something away from myself and I was being a " "brat" about letting go Can you believe it? That's human nature for ya! I think the so called experts have scared us silly about what we should be doing and not be doing in just about every phase of our lives. It's become kind of scary. Here I am telling other people on this post not to be too hard on themselves because they really seem OK and in the mean time I'm beating myself up. I have absorbed a lot of helpful information here that has led me to believe that I don't need to be so frightened of my habit, because I'm not a drunk! Ahhh! that felt good!!! I'm just a chick who likes to close her day with a couple of glasses of Shiraz or a good Merlot. Last night I actually had 2 glasses and sat on the couch and tried to analize if it made me feel bad..........Nope!! Just made me feel comfy, cozy, relaxed and ready for bed Nothin wrong with that.
I have to tell you a story about a friend of mine (she is French Canadian) and she always had a glass of wine while making dinner. She and I were always going on diets because WE thought we were fat. We were a little over our normal weight but not fat! ( I realize this now) Any way, I told her I didn't mind dieting but I didn't want to give up wine, She said why should I? And she suggested that I have the glass at dinner instead of in the evening. I decided to do just that. We had company for dinner the next night, and since they were at the house, I indulged in a nice glass of wine as I prepared the meal. About an hour and a half later we all sat down to eat and I went to get the chicken out of the oven...... Guess what .....hee hee... I forgot to turn the oven on. Everything else was cooked and ready except the bird! I was sooooo embarrassed... Soooo I never drank wine at that hour again. One glass of wine at that hour is enough to make me want to sit down, because I haven't eaten yet and it goes straight to my head. That's why I save it for night time. I again will say, I am so glad everyone has enjoyed this thread ! O'Suzana

Suzann, I think your friend meant to have the wine with dinner, not while cooking it!