This excerpt from a post over at Zeroing In On Health kind of sounds like what was being mentioned earlier on this thread as to fat inflows/outflows:

"We must understand that hunger is a request from our cells for fuel. Obesity is internal starvation. Sure, there is plenty of fuel in fat tissue, but our cells are not getting to it because it's been trapped there due to high insulin levels. High insulin causes the body to put a crimp on fat tissue (much like we do when we bend the water hose) to create more pressure.

To reverse the condition, we have to literally overeat on fat and protein which will speed up the flow of fuel to the cells. This is the essence of the zero-carb diet. Your body will interpret that as having to reduce the fat tissue because the flow of fuel has increased too quickly. It made you fat to increase the pressure (i.e. the flow of fuel to your cells). Now, it will decrease the pressure because plenty of usable fuel is coming through the diet."
http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/...ead.php?tid=112

(Not vouching for or against what the person is saying.)

Yes this explanation, out of many, is sound and fits with Pennington's hypothesis. But it does not go into details about what causes insulin to stay too high for too long in the first place. Of course, most ZCer assumes the cause is carbs in the diet. But observations made by Weston A. Price does not support this all-carbs-have-this-effect-on-insulin hypothesis.

Yes carbs will require more insulin, but it does not mean that insulin levels should stay high too long. When you look at the metabolic pathways, fructose is the one carb responsible for insulin resistance. And IR will make it so that your insulin levels stay higher for too long.

Of course if you are already obese (damaged), then we don't know if cutting fructose will be enough. I believe it is and I will find out if that works for me.

Patrick

I stumbled on this just now:

This post is probably more specific to the original topic of this thread:

More power to you. It is definitely not enough for me LOL. Dagnabit.

Now here's my question, if you eat protein to excess, and you don't need it for building anything and insulin is low what happens to it? I've been told you don't just excrete it.

Insulin does go up when you eat protein but glucagon also goes up, not exactly sure what that means though.

But do you really know that? Because it could take one year without fructose, PUFA vegetable oils and caffeine before you are repaired enough to even start losing weight.

Weight loss is the last step in the healing process. That is why, I'm giving this a real good shot.

Patrick

If your body does not make use of the proteins, it will finds its way to your liver. And your liver will transform it to a usable form of energy, independent of your insulin level.

Patrick

This logic gets really circular. So it goes to the liver and gets converted to glycogen... what if your glycogen stores are full?

For a minute there, I had a vision of a ham hanging in the basement, losing weight because the water is slowly evaporating as it cures.

But you meant the healing process, didn't you?

I've spent years nearly that way but for the caffeine and some of that involved long periods of no caffeine (very minimal PUFA and only the fructose in nonstarchy vegetables). But I'm not saying I am a barometer for everyone else's metabolism.

Do you have a research reference for this? Because to me it sounds like wishful thinking that functions as appeasing logic when something isn't working for someone.

There is no other endeavor on earth besides weight loss that someone would continue doing for a year with no results under the 'faith' that what they were doing was working. Except maybe Religious Science (the CSM has all kinds of articles from people who had simple, common, but miserable ailments, which of course they wouldn't take medicine for, so they prayed about it and 18 years later they were healed hallelujiah. Same theory, slightly longer timeframe).

Wasn't it Einstein who said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. Giving something time to work is one thing but come ON.

I'm not saying that the gradual healing from god-knows-what-all is not likely improved 'with time' no matter WHAT one is now doing-better, doing-less, etc. I'm sure it is. We don't know for certain, I don't think, what damage is done, how much, how to measure the damage or the healing either, to be able to address that very well.

I'm just saying that nobody should have to do anything for a year to see if something isn't working for them. I give bodies more credit than this. Most of the cells of the human body are completely replaced--many times no less--in far less time than that.

I actually lost weight first, and now I'm working on the healing part. Pretty much all my weight loss was in the first 6 months of going GF/CF - some of it was even before I started Atkins. The remaining 3 1/2 years I've been working on digestive and fatigue issues, along with stuff like headaches. It's been very slow but definite progress. It would be nice to lose some more weight, and who knows, maybe I will someday, but if I do, it will come as a surprise.

One of the things diet devotees get into is explaining away failures as either not enough time given for healing to take place or not strict enough adherence by the follower. Everyone uses that, the vegans, the fruitarians, every whack-o diet out there and the sane ones too.

At some point you just have to say, "This isn't working for me" and move on.

Tom Billings of beyondveg.com wrote really brilliant about it, wish I could find it. But this snippet says a lot:
Or you're "detoxing" or "healing" or you're not perfect enough. Maybe the diet just doesn't work.

This is a good read. "Troubleshooting problems in raw food diets". If you have to start using some of those excuses, then maybe you're on the wrong diet.

I was just asking this as a simple question. There could be so many things wrong with someone's metabolism. You could very well have other issues than the ones I have listed. There are no easy answers. It remains a personal quest, that is why we are all here on these forums.

Patrick