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  #76   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 09:51
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Plan: n/a
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A few things ...

1. Thunder can be intimidating at times? Come on. As Leah said, I'm a teddy bear - just not a soft, mushy one.

2. Most people associate low reps with strength and long rest intervals and higher reps with shorter rest intervals. In actuality, while it 'goes against the grain' short rest intervals with heavy, low rep training leads to a good growth response. If one were after maximal strength only, then it would be wiser to lengthen the rest intervals somewhat, but for leg development, keep the rest intervals short.

3. Leah mentioned an inflexibility in the calves which could inhibit your ability to get into the full squat position. While this is true, it is usually an inflexibility in the hips that is a greater contributor. Both areas should be stretched regularly. You could simply 'ease' your way into full squats with your heels flat. You could start with plates under your heels. There are benefits to this (it makes it a completely different exercise) as it shifts the focus more to your quads (kind of like front squats). For example, you could squat with 10 lb plates under your heels, concentrating on getting really deep. After a couple sessions like that, (with lots of stretching in between) you could switch to having only 5 lb plates under your heels. And then 2 1/2 lb plates and finally squatting flat footed.

4. The issue of the 'toe not going over the knee' is a biomechanical misunderstanding. See the following

If one were to assess knee injuries in athletic (read as: sport) environments, it becomes apparent that a high percentage of patellar trauma cases are sustained while the knee is beyond the all-sacred toe-line. In a misguided attempt to avoid knee injuries, the exercise community has therefore made this knee position taboo. In reality, the opposite reaction would have been preferential. Since this knee position is unavoidable in sports, or even in everyday life (try walking up or down stairs or a hill without your knee crossing your toe line) the proper way to prevent injuries is to strengthen the musculature around the joint by allowing the knee to travel into the “unsafe” zone in a controlled environment.

All joints contain feedback mechanisms inside the connective tissue and joint capsules called proprioceptors. These communicate with your nervous system to tell your brain what position your joint is at. This is how you can close your eyes and be aware of exactly what angle all of your joints are at without actually seeing them. To simplify a complicated issue, the more time you spend with your knee past your toe-line, the more you teach your nervous system to activate the protective soft tissue around the joint therefore PREVENTING injury during athletic situations (Supertraining, Siff & Verkoshansky, 1993). Close your eyes and think of a highly succesful strength coach. Yep, he agrees. Somehow, this news just doesn’t buy column space in Muscle and Fatness
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  #77   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 10:04
Delta Fox's Avatar
Delta Fox Delta Fox is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 382
 
Plan: Currently on PSMF cycle
Stats: 198/157/150 Female 5'9"
BF:? No thank U !!
Progress: 85%
Location: Ladner, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
A few things ...

1. Thunder can be intimidating at times? Come on. As Leah said, I'm a teddy bear - just not a soft, mushy one.

I was, in an obviously feeble attempt, doin' the "play on words" thing and refering to your "namesake"!! I'm sure you're quite the "cuddle bug"!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
2. Most people associate low reps with strength and long rest intervals and higher reps with shorter rest intervals. In actuality, while it 'goes against the grain' short rest intervals with heavy, low rep training leads to a good growth response. If one were after maximal strength only, then it would be wiser to lengthen the rest intervals somewhat, but for leg development, keep the rest intervals short.

Got it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
3. Leah mentioned an inflexibility in the calves which could inhibit your ability to get into the full squat position. While this is true, it is usually an inflexibility in the hips that is a greater contributor. Both areas should be stretched regularly. You could simply 'ease' your way into full squats with your heels flat. You could start with plates under your heels. There are benefits to this (it makes it a completely different exercise) as it shifts the focus more to your quads (kind of like front squats). For example, you could squat with 10 lb plates under your heels, concentrating on getting really deep. After a couple sessions like that, (with lots of stretching in between) you could switch to having only 5 lb plates under your heels. And then 2 1/2 lb plates and finally squatting flat footed.

I notice this morn that it's definately in my hips moreso than my calves. I have very tight hip flexors and will work with this technique and lots of stretching. Thank You!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
4. The issue of the 'toe not going over the knee' is a biomechanical misunderstanding. See the following

If one were to assess knee injuries in athletic (read as: sport) environments, it becomes apparent that a high percentage of patellar trauma cases are sustained while the knee is beyond the all-sacred toe-line. In a misguided attempt to avoid knee injuries, the exercise community has therefore made this knee position taboo. In reality, the opposite reaction would have been preferential. Since this knee position is unavoidable in sports, or even in everyday life (try walking up or down stairs or a hill without your knee crossing your toe line) the proper way to prevent injuries is to strengthen the musculature around the joint by allowing the knee to travel into the “unsafe” zone in a controlled environment.

All joints contain feedback mechanisms inside the connective tissue and joint capsules called proprioceptors. These communicate with your nervous system to tell your brain what position your joint is at. This is how you can close your eyes and be aware of exactly what angle all of your joints are at without actually seeing them. To simplify a complicated issue, the more time you spend with your knee past your toe-line, the more you teach your nervous system to activate the protective soft tissue around the joint therefore PREVENTING injury during athletic situations (Supertraining, Siff & Verkoshansky, 1993). Close your eyes and think of a highly succesful strength coach. Yep, he agrees. Somehow, this news just doesn’t buy column space in Muscle and Fatness


I also noticed this morn that if I widened my stance, the position was much more comfortable and I could achieve an ALMOST ATF position!! Needless to say, I will be sucking back the glutamate today!!
Thanks again for all the valuable info thunder and Leah!!
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  #78   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 10:09
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Fox
Needless to say, I will be sucking back the glutamate today!! Thanks again for all the valuable info thunder and Leah!!


Aside from the squatting issue ...

I'm sure you meant glutamine? Why do you take that?
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  #79   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 10:39
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
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Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
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You not a fan of glutamine, thunder?
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  #80   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 10:42
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
You not a fan of glutamine, thunder?


For what purposes?

Glutamine is one of those supplements that just never panned out. It's use is theoretically sound, but the application of that science just isn't there.

So, no, I'm not a fan of it as I don't feel it provides any significant or even noticeable benefits. If the benefits aren't noticeable, I don't see the reason to spend money on it.
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  #81   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 10:54
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
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Plan: Metabolic Surge
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Gee, I really like it. And I notice it when I run out - I just seem to not recover as quickly without it. Plus, a lot of low-carbers take it to help with carb-cravings, something I never noticed, but I never really had cravings all that bad.
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  #82   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:12
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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The most recent studies show that decreased or increased levels of glutamine in the muscle has no effect on protein synthesis. Blood and muscle glutamine levels have been show to have no bearing on protein synthesis and protein turnover.

There are also several studies showing that glutamine supplementation doesn't alter exercise-induced suppression of the immune system.

When thinking of the metabolism of glutamine, I honestly see no possible mechanism for reduced cravings.

The big problem with glutamine supplementation is getting it into the blood and muscles. Many cells of the body use glutamine for fuel and the gastrointestinal tract.can account for something like 40% of glutamine utilization in the body. There were even a couple studies done on bodybuilders using very high doses that showed no positive effects whatsoever.

The only benefit that I can see it having on a low carb diet is that it can be converted to glucose/sugar and can replenish ATP.
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  #83   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:13
mle_ii's Avatar
mle_ii mle_ii is offline
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Posts: 427
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: // Male 69 inches
BF:27%/21%/15%
Progress: -27977%
Location: Redmond, WA
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Leah, Another question with regards to the 8 sets of 3 reps. Are you doing these heavy, like say 75% of your 1rm?

Thunder and Leah, This 8 sets of 3 has got me interested in more about it. Now that I'm learning about it it sure does make a lot more sense for growth potentential. My guess is that when you do the 3 sets of 8 you have to rest a lot longer between the sets because they are longer. Since you rest less between the 8 sets of 3 it ends up being more like 24 reps than just 3 sets of 8 reps can be. This sounds like it would tear those muscle fibers more and lead to more development. Is this part of the science behind this?

Thanks,
Mike
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  #84   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:18
mle_ii's Avatar
mle_ii mle_ii is offline
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Posts: 427
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: // Male 69 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
Many cells of the body use glutamine for fuel and the gastrointestinal tract.can account for something like 40% of glutamine utilization in the body. ..... The only benefit that I can see it having on a low carb diet is that it can be converted to glucose/sugar and can replenish ATP.

Interesting, so for someone like me who has Microscopic Colitis, then Glutamine is a good thing, since this would lead to improvment in GI function. My guess.

Also, I wonder if the lowered cravings could be because of the following. Since the Glutamine helps fuel and keep the GI healthy, then this would make the GI be better at utilizing the food that we eat, and thus might lead to lower cravings since the body is now getting more of what it needs. Again just an uneducated guess.
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  #85   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:20
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mle_ii
Leah, Another question with regards to the 8 sets of 3 reps. Are you doing these heavy, like say 75% of your 1rm?

Thunder and Leah, This 8 sets of 3 has got me interested in more about it. Now that I'm learning about it it sure does make a lot more sense for growth potentential. My guess is that when you do the 3 sets of 8 you have to rest a lot longer between the sets because they are longer. Since you rest less between the 8 sets of 3 it ends up being more like 24 reps than just 3 sets of 8 reps can be. This sounds like it would tear those muscle fibers more and lead to more development. Is this part of the science behind this?

Thanks,
Mike


But you have to remember to also do work in the other rep ranges as well. This is another reason why the upper/lower split that Leah mentioned can be a good one. With two leg days per week, you can have one devoted to really heavy work (ie 8x3) and the second leg day can be devoted to more higher rep, longer duration, 'traditional bodybuilding' type stuff.

Training multiple muscular qualities is the key.

Oh, and she would probably be using a 5RM for the 8x3.
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  #86   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:22
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mle_ii
Interesting, so for someone like me who has Microscopic Colitis, then Glutamine is a good thing, since this would lead to improvment in GI function. My guess.


Potentially yes. I beileve that glutamine supplementation has been a recommendation for those with various form of colitis, etc.
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  #87   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:46
mle_ii's Avatar
mle_ii mle_ii is offline
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Posts: 427
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: // Male 69 inches
BF:27%/21%/15%
Progress: -27977%
Location: Redmond, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -thunder-
But you have to remember to also do work in the other rep ranges as well. This is another reason why the upper/lower split that Leah mentioned can be a good one. With two leg days per week, you can have one devoted to really heavy work (ie 8x3) and the second leg day can be devoted to more higher rep, longer duration, 'traditional bodybuilding' type stuff.

Training multiple muscular qualities is the key.


Oh yes, I do other rep ranges as well, even the ones I hate.

You mention doing type types of lifting in one week. Is this any better or different (well duh it's different, but different in results) than say doing 1 or 2 weeks of one type and then 1 or 2 weeks of the other? Or does it even matter so long as I'm changing up the routine to hit different muscular qualities?
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  #88   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 11:59
~krista~'s Avatar
~krista~ ~krista~ is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/199/150 Female 5'2
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Location: massachusetts
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thanks for the tip regarding what I thought was "lifting heavy" . I'm not looking to bulk, just tone and firm. Should I continue with what I'm doing or go heavy for as many as I can , say between 3-6 reps?
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  #89   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 12:01
-thunder- -thunder- is offline
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Plan: n/a
Stats: /235/235 Male 6'1"
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You're not going to 'bulk'. Women don't bulk up, especially when they're dieting. Lots of men are trying to bulk up (with their more favourable hormonal profiles) and even they have a hard time doing so. You have nothing to worry about.

Tone is simply an easier way of saying lean and muscular. If that's your goal, then some good, heavy full squats would serve you well.

Even something like 5 sets of 5 reps would be good, choosing a weight that would probably have limited you to 7 reps.
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  #90   ^
Old Wed, Oct-06-04, 13:01
Delta Fox's Avatar
Delta Fox Delta Fox is offline
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Posts: 382
 
Plan: Currently on PSMF cycle
Stats: 198/157/150 Female 5'9"
BF:? No thank U !!
Progress: 85%
Location: Ladner, BC
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Yup, mean glutamine!! I find it has actually helped with my "tummy troubles" for one and I also take it in the hope that it will contribute to my muscle recovery. Regardless, I will keep taking it with my acidophilus/bifidus for the "happy guts" I experience while taking it. The mix of the two seems to help . (It's soooo nice to be able to sleep at night!!)
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