kimberly-- I really DO understand what you're saying. Saying over and over that it's okay to eat off-plan to the same person IS much different than assuring someone that it's not going to make them a failure for making a mistake. There are some pretty codependent attitudes around, but that's human nature.

If someone is wavering, and 5 people tell them "don't do it" and ONE person says "I cheated and lost 5 lbs." who do you SUPPOSE they'll listen to?

I'm not saying that enabling behavior is healthy, just that it's a fact of life. Throw as many people together as we have on the board, and you'll get all types. I've just had to curb my own reaction when my advice goes unheeded.

Constructive criticism is usually what is needed, but when someone is obviously looking for sympathy rather than HELP I find it better left to those who want to make someone else's eating THEIR responsibility.

Nicole-- I meant to tell you I really admire you. You've shared your ups AND your downs along the way, and I feel like you really help a lot of people.

Yesterday I was on another forum and someone was writing that they were having trouble losing 2 weeks after starting Induction.

Someone else suggested they give a sample of a day's menu. The list included eggs, bacon (no note of it being sf), meats, vegetables, plus 3 different occasions of artificial sweetners throughout the day. (Splenda in a drink, on walnuts + homemade ice cream)

I suggested that the sweets and non-sf bacon might be a problem. She wrote back and said she had never thought about it and thought it might be worth a look.

Later in the thread she tells someone else she eats Mini Carb granola for fiber, as well as their choco hot cereal and occasionally has low carb muffins.

Sheesh!! At the very least it would have been nice if she had been up front about all the 'Frakenfoods' instead of dressing it up to look like she's eating only the very basics. "I'm really an Atkins girl!"

That's the kind of stuff I have a real problem with. You try to help someone and then you find out they haven't been totally up front about stuff. (Personally, I think they don't tell about stuff like that because they know in their heart of hearts it's stuff they're not suppose to be eating at this point of their weight loss.)

That and the person who says, "I accidentally fell into a plate of enchiladas, so I ate them."

__________________
http://dstartz.com/LC

Hee, it is hard not to get some perverse pleasure out of seeing someone fall into something they condemned someone else for....I think that is the human in us. However, two wrongs don't make a right, nobody is perfect, and those who condemn and not uphold their own standings? IMO, that is ignorance as well, and as you say, someone who can face this ignorance and admit they are wrong makes all the difference to me.



I may get jumped on for stereotyping, but isn't it common for those who are overweight to have issues with insecurity/self esteem? I think these folks want justification that they aren't a bad person, to be told it is okay that they failed, cause they already feel like crap and mad at themselves.



I agree with everything you said above. I don't think you can help someone by enabling....there is such a thing as "minding your own business", as well as being able to read when someone merely wants to vent or actually wants advice, and that is up to the individual with what they want to hear. However, if someone ASKS, I feel that I owe the respect of truth if I know it, or an opinion if I actually have an educated one to give. Vice versa as well -- if I ask for an opinion or advice, I expect the truth in return.

BUT, the way one expresses themselves can go a long way, and when preparing to tell someone something that that may upset them, you gotta consider the best way to say it. Put yourself in that other person's shoes for a minute, and try very hard not to come off condencending, superior, or TOO blunt, IMO. You want to help with the truth, not intentionally hurt.

Its hard for me, to a degree, to read some of the opinions in this thread, even if I agree and have seen what is being referred to. Why? Well, um, I am a newbie myself, definitely in the 4-6 week catagory where things start going wrong.

It makes me feel like I don't quite fit in here yet, cause I haven't earned the respect of sticking with this WOE long enough, I haven't reached that 6 month mark where it is officially a "lifestyle". I'm still a "flight risk", LOL

Yet, I don't feel I belong over with the newbies either....most of what I am doing there is giving advice/info, and I am not experiencing near the frustrations/struggles.

I saw that thread you are referring to. What is disheartening tho, is that this person is past induction, and those frankenfoods are actually allowed on Atkins post induction.

My first thought was whether her having trouble actually even constituted "trouble" -- I haven't lost a pound a day after my initial two weeks (still losing 2-4 a week), but was under the impression that this was normal.

The next thing, IMO, would be to look at the frankenfoods, as yeah, she had quite a few, but I have met plenty who have not stalled ingesting Splenda on a daily basis. I haven't had a problem with a slice of LC toast daily. I also eat 2 slices of "regular" bacon every morning, under the impression that the danger here is "nitrates", which is found in every store bought package of bacon (I don't have a health food grocery readily at hand).

It sounds like most who have been LCing for a long time end up with the maxium end of the plan ie: maximum health benefits. There are many in between that haven't quite reached this realization yet, and I think this is a mindset that sets in gradually, and not one that a "newbie" can fully grasp. Us newbies need time to grow and learn at our own pace.

My latest struggle is learning from my PPFL book that I am not supposed to be scrambling my eggs because breaking the yoke produces cholesteral peroxides. I'm pissed! I HATE boiled, poached, and fried eggs, and eliminating scrambled will pretty much kill my enthusiasm for eggs altogether. Realistically, I can't make this change overnight :-(.

Even WITH frankenfoods (in moderation without obvious LC "junk"), as long as one is not stalling (and some don't fully understand what actually constitutes a true "stall"), I think this is the "lessor evil" vs. the previous HC diet.

I think we may be talking about 2 different threads. This person wrote in another thread, "then trying Low Carb products I put back on 10 [lbs]". (This is her second time around LCing.)

This person already knows that low carb products cause her to gain, yet she's still eating them and wondering why she's gaining weight.

__________________
http://dstartz.com/LC

Ahh, okay.....my apologies :-)

I've never heard of scrambling eggs being unhealthy. If it's the only way I can gag them down, I'm not sure I care.

MeBLady-- you're right on about the self-esteem thing. It may just BE that they're looking for validation(even 100 times) that they aren't useless losers. That's why I think this thread was put in the right place. To read about how some people are fed up with them might be really painful and make things worse. At least the original poster chose the proper setting for a rant about it. If you read the "War Zone" you've been warned!

No problem. I just wanted to clarify.

__________________
http://dstartz.com/LC

Exactly. Hence the thread being posted here.


~Kimberly

I see this needs clarifying. On paleo/neanderthin - my WOE, to which I was referring in my post - if it couldn't have been available to our pre-agricultural ancestors, it IS cheating. Hope that helps.

Wyv

I love this thread. What a great discussion.

I agree with many of the things being said. I myself was one of those and I ended up joinging OA.

I follow a low carb, low cal, no sugar OA plan but not low enough to be Atkins. I am not perfect with my food in the sense that some days I may eat something like whole grain bread or a lil too much fruit. Today as a matter of fact I probably ate the most I have in a long time, but still acceptable in my book.

Yet in my journal, I was bitching about no weight loss in 2 weeks. OMG!!! Reality check!!!! That's for sure. I haven't fallen off plan or what have you, but this thread has helped me tremendously. I really appreciate it!! Thank You!!

Thank you, Potato. I really appreciate that

I'm just glad I'm not around her everyday anymore. I remember she'd always complain that she had no money... but would pull the defensive routine when I'd suggest cutting down on some monthly bills (like getting her nails done or the cell phone, or switching internet service, or not buying any more clothes/shoes/handbags...) It got to the point where I gave up arguing, but whenever she started to compain about having no money and having such a huge credit card debt, I'd just tell her that I didn't want to hear it--not when she just got her nails done last week, or spent $80 to have her hair done the week before!

I'm starting to get OT here, but that'll be my plan when she says she's not losing weight... are you still eating bread & candy? well, what did ya expect? Of course, I'll always be there if she wants to talk about trying to find ways to stay away from the bread & candy... but she won't get permission to have them from me!



That was actually part of what I left out with my sister's story. She was really talking to mom, but when I interrupted to say that she shouldn't be having a candy bar after she's went ahead and had some bread, her first response was "Mom didn't know about the candy bar!!!" As you said, she knew she wasn't supposed to have it. She was mad at herself--but chose to take it out on me by blowing up.

I agree-- that's why I can't eat the Atkins frozen pizza. I used to eat loads of cheap frozen pizzas, and the Atkins pizza just makes me crazy.

I do get LC ketchup, though. But it's not really a food so much as a flavor for my always LC burger.

Gotta hand it to you Kimberly....your words are so true. We are all in charge of our own bodies, our own choices, and our own destinys. Looking for empathy when we make a bad choice, is universal these days, and not just in eating !!!
Its really time for people to accept responsibility for poor choices, whether that is eating the wrong food, or any other daily issue that we come across.
No matter what lc plan each of us is on, there are books with explicit guidelines...we ALL know what foods are poor choices, and which foods are acceptable. Looking for someone else to justify our poor choice, is just looking to pass the blame elsewhere.

Way to tell it like it is girl !