I often find myesf during these kind of arguments reflecting on one of the Aristotelian fallacies of logic: argument from authority.

Logically valid views are those based on evidence and reasoned deduction from evidence. Given the vast spectrum of disease that doctors study they are far from specialist on diet, and they are encouraged (or were before evidence based medicine started to impact) to listen to views of their 'elders and betters'!

This is rather the point - what does the evidence say.

It might also surprise you to know that doctors, for their 8 years of medical school, receive very little training in the area of diet and nutrition so while they may be experts in diseases and the disease process, most of them are no more educated in nutrition than the rest of us and what they have learned is based on the good old food pyramid (put together by lawyers and politicians, BTW, not doctors or nutritionists). Bad information, even coming from the "voice of authority" is still bad information.

Tobe140,

Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist. Correct me if I am wrong but it takes 8 years to become a doctor but when you specialize in a specific field it takes even longer. Besides, we have to take the reigns of our own health care. Yes doctors specialize but we should have the intelligence to research and understand what they are telling us. If research says that the kidneys and other organs can consume a low carb diet without problems then there must be something to it. Research also says that when problems crop up such as a gall/kidney stone attack, these organs failed to do their job because they were not healthy in the first place.

I'm at almost 3 years. Health is great.

Cardio won't speed your fat loss by much. Try weightlifting. It sure worked for me.

Ketosis is a natural bodily function. I am willing to bet that you experienced ketosis long before you began low carbing. It occurs simply when we burn fat. Exercise will keep you in ketosis. Do you want to stop exercising? I don't think so. Even if you increased your carbs, if you are burnig fat, you will be in lipolysis or ketosis. Ketosis is enhanced by glucagon, the partner hormone of insulin. If you really research ketosis as a bodily function and not a result of low carbing you will discover that it is okay to be in ketosis.

Goodness - it does make me chortle when I hear people saying how LC'ing is bad for your health!

How can drinking lots of water, cutting out refined sugars / wheat products and eating good natural foods such as meats, vegetables, nuts and fruit really be detrimental to your health?

It might even lead one to ask how we ever survived as a species, hunting for our meat and foraging for our veg / fruit before some bright spark invented refined bread / cakes / sweets / transfats etc. ad infinitum, mightn't it??

Dearie me...

Tobe140 Hi Im sorry to hear about your kidney stones, my brother in law has them so severe he usually has to have them surgically removed. His wife has him on a vegetarian diet, as she decided meat causes them, they havent gotten any better, so I really think its probably each person handles food differently. Anyways I feel for you I watch him suffer and I wouldnt want to go thru that. I have a health issue myself that my Atkins WOL helped, I have high blood pressure have had it since I was 18 and had to take meds for it. I no longer have to take anything and do very well, but thats just me. I want you to know I dont think Atkins will kill me, but I support your decision to watch out for your own health and change what you need to change.

Cartmanis, I totally agree with you.

I don't understand how people can LIVE off of all of that unatural food.

Just my opinion, I couldn't go without meat or veggies for a whole day.

Hey we're all atkinsers or some form of it, right? Let's do a study...How many of us are suffering from kidney stones??

I'm not...

None here.

Did anyone follow the Women's World Weight Lifting competition on TV last month?

They interviewed all the women that were going after the World Championship Title...

All of the women said, they eat NO carbs, NO fat, and exist on water and steamed protein and steamed veggies....

The narrator of this show mentioned how these women were bringing their body fat levels down below 30%... He also said that a female, bringing her body fat down that low is dangerous to her health, her menses, and prolonged health problems..

It doesn't sound healthy to me...
:::grabbing my jug of water too:::

30%? I think this might be a typo.

Bodybuilders like to get into the single digits for comp, but they don't stay there. Female bodybuilders at 10-13% look VERY lean, and ripped to shreds.

Body fat levels this low are not dangerous, but your periods may well stop for a bit. They start up again when your bodyfat raises back up a few percent, though. And there are PLENTY of women who maintain their bodyfat at 14-15% with no problems. Personally, I'm trying for the high teens.

Oh, and please keep in mind that unless a contest specifically says "natural", the bodybuilders you see have probably ALL done steroids to achieve their look. That being said, NOBODY looks like they do on contest day at any other time than contest day.

30% body fat is high. Athletes tend to go over board with 10% body fat. This becomes dangerous and can cause a cessation in menses which occurs in anorexics. My body fat is 30% give or take and you can pinch way more than an inch of that.

My body fat before I went on low carb was only 26 percent and it was pudgy. I think you could safely be around 18 or 19 percent if you worked out every day.

Well the jury is back on the cause of your kidney stones. Did Atkins cause it?
Studies at Duke Uni and elsewhere have PROVEN that Atkins not only has no negative effect on liver function, kidney function or bone density--these worries are often cited by the diet's detractors--it actually has health benefits. If you want to see what these health benefits are read page 31 of First Magazine the July 12,2004 issue.