Hmmm..... something strange happened. I made a reply yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared. At any rate I will repost, because I really appreciate these last few posts, good feeback.

Thanks for the pointers to the Duke study, MoonDansyr and Nancy, it's not the original, but it's something. However I'm not sure just how the info in that study would apply to MGW's hunger issues, somehow it seems off point. Worth following up on in any case.

Anne, that is a wonderful idea about using a glucose meter, it certainly will cut down on the speculation if one can get solid info that way. Will have to see how MGW feels about it though, I don't know if she'd be into sticking herself as much as needed, even though our diabetic friends don't seem to find it a problem.

Jadefox26, thanks for your wonderful comments, it really feels nice to be appreciated I checked out that link you pointed me at, and it was helpful. (that entire website seems very useful) It looks to me like we are eating enough, MGW has done traditional diets in the past and says that while she feels hungry, she is not getting that 'logy, tired' feeling she gets on calorie short diet, she is also loosing very nicely, about 2lbs / week on average, although it's sort of 'step wise' where she won't loose some weeks and then dumps loads the next. (4.5lbs this past week for instance) OTOH, I am seemingly stalled these past 5 weeks. According to my figures on the carb sounter, it looks like needs between 2500 and 3500 cals/day, I need about 500 less. I'm guessing that we are getting on the order of 3000 each, enough so that she is loosing, and I'm not.

We are actually eating fairly close to induction, aside from a few nuts and her LC treats. We are basically eating about the same things and amounts for most meals, as it is easier to cook that way.

I can also understand your comments about the desireability of waiting until she looses more, but unfortuneately we have biological clock issues that say we can't afford to wait any longer than we have to. (I'm 47, she's 44) Right now our plan is to have her get down to 300 or less as soon as is safe, so that we can go back to the fertility clinic. In the meantime we 'keep in practice' as much as possible in the hopes that we can avoid the clinic. Obviously she'll have to switch to maintainance if we get lucky, but hopefully we will be able to minimize any weight increase and then go back to OWL later and get rid of some more once we are able.

Gooserider

Practice makes perfect!

That reminds of some Woody Allen movie where a woman was commenting on his sexual prowess and his answer was something like, "Thanks, I practice a lot when I'm alone".

It's a tough job but somebody's got to do it! Besides, doesn't the good Dr. A tell us to get lots of exercise - all that heavy breathing I'm sure it's good aerobics...

Gooserider

Oh, she just sounds imperious. She was just a big old pussycat. And she served her guests Goldfish crackers -- nothing snobby about that!

I remember her saying in that high, patrician voice, "If you add the eggs from on high, it makes them more eggy." I think in some ways she was always goofing on herself.

Perhaps so, but I never used to watch cooking shows in general, and the few times I did catch a bit of her show the accent and so forth was a bit of a turnoff. (not to mention the jokes about how she approached cooking alcohol - a splash for the dish, a sip for the cook, a little more for the dish, two sips for the cook, etc. ) I know a lot of people really loved her show, but I never did.

These days I don't watch television at all if I can avoid it, but from what I've heard 'Biker Billy Cooks w/ Fire' (I've seen him live but never on TV) is more my style. His stuff is pretty good except that it's all vegetarian, and lots of it is high carb. However many of the dishes are pretty simple to just add meat to, and some of the others might be adaptable. A variation on his Habenero Cranberry sauce was one of our family traditionals before we started doing LC and had to stop making it. Everyone that I introduced it to thought it sounded scary, then couldn't get enough of it!

Another cooking show that I've heard about, but never seen was the English 'Two Fat Ladies' show. Don't know about the food, but I can get into the idea of cruising around the countryside in a sidecar rig...

Gooserider

Gooserider:
I haven't read this entire thread but your first and intial post.

I initially lost 32 pounds and a year later fell off the wagon. I was like your girlfriend, hungry and couldn't get my appetite and cravings under control. Then I read a book which recommended getting more sleep to ease carb cravings. I figured "what do I have to lose" except my craving for carbs and within 2 days of sleeping 9.5 hours per day I lost all my cravings for carbs, got back on plan and lost 9 pounds in the last 9 days with no increase in appetite. I am eating high fat, moderate protein. Veggies only at supper, no fruit and lots of meat, fish, eggs, nuts, cheese, pumpkin and sunflower seeds. If you don't want to eat this way, perhaps then when cravings and hunger start to assert themselves, getting a bit more sleep may help to curb them. Just a thought, since it worked for me.

I'm starting to think there is something to this sleep thing. I'm paying attention to it more. For me it isn't cravings, just hunger pure and simple. I missed a few hours of sleep night before last and yesterday I was simply ravenous! Last night, I got plenty of rest and today my appetite is much, much less.

Hmmm Interesting. I've heard the opposite, that eating more can help when working w/o enough sleep, but never about sleep suppressing hunger.

It makes sense though, considering that we don't (USUALLY )need to get up in the middle of the night to eat (Peeing is a different story!), and that breakfast is the meal we are most inclined to skip (we don't) and at best is probably the smallest meal of the day.

We both tend to be on the short side of enough sleep, but she generally gets more than I do. Her job is very flexible about when she gets in most of the time, so she can sleep later. I have an incredibly erratic schedule depending on whether I get called to sub or not, and which school calls me. I also tend to stay up way late having my last smoke and getting hooked in a book. OTOH, I can often nap in the afternoon after I get home (or fall asleep in front of the PC) I don't think napping would be good for her job future however.

From what I understand, MGW's problem isn't 'cravings' for particular foods where she wants food 'X' desperately but isn't interested in food 'Y'. Instead she describes it more as feeling just generally hungry for anything edible in the way one might just before sitting down to dinner (especially pre-LC), except that it's all the time...

Foodwise Hellistile, we aren't eating that much differently than you are, we do everything we can to get more fat, otherwise breakfast generally doesn't include veggies, neither do most of our snacks. Lunch does include salad veggies (probably the most salad of the day)and 6-10 oz of meat. Our supper will include either lots of non-salad veggies, or moderate non-salad veggies and a small salad plus another 8-12 oz of meat.

I do sometimes worry about how much meat we are eating, whether we might not be getting excessive amounts. My guess is that we are averaging between one and two POUNDS of meat per day, each!

The lunch salads that we eat on weekdays fit in a 5 cup plastic container (We've started using those Glad 'Take-alongs' semi-disposable things, they work well. I fill them about 3/4 full w/ assorted salad greens, radishes, chopped red peppers, etc. and have a weight of approx 5 - 7 oz. (not including the container) I then add some sort of meat salad (chicken, turkey, pork, tuna, chopped deli ends, etc) made with 6-10 oz of meat each, plus mayo, spices, and typically some chopped scallions and / or other herbs, which will bring the total weight up to 17-20 oz.

Dinner, we generally figure on 8-16 oz meat each, normally either fried w/ olive oil or baked, plus veggies (often in a stirfry, if not usually w/ some kind of sauce) and usually a small salad.

In some ways this isn't a big change from our Pre-LC WOE, in terms of the amount of meat that we are eating, though probably my lunchtime meat is up. The big change is that we got rid of the bread and especially the pasta, and put in salads and veggies instead.

Gooserider

Hi there, I've been lurking in this thread since it started but haven't had anything to contribute, so I've stayed mum.

I do have an observation now though. If your girlfriend is "just plain hungry", not craving, then why was she so resistant to give up the LC candy if just any food could do? I realize it may just be the most enjoyable food, but if it didn't have a special place in her heart then I don't think she would have been so hesitant to give it up. That signals a bit of food dependency or craving to me. Would she have reacted differently if you asked her to give up nuts? Or chicken? Candy in any form isn't usually what people reach for when they are truly hungry, it isn't very filling or nutritious to tide you over 'till a meal. I think the sugar alcohols can realy make you dependent on them. But once you haven't had them for a while you don't even want them anymore. It isn't like it's a constant hardship, always working to avoid and "give up" artificial sweeteners. It is at first, but then you just don't desire them at all any more. Then the key is not to get cocky and think you have power over them and try them again. That is when you get re-hooked!

Best of luck to you. I hope MGW's hungries are subsiding or that you find the solution. And of course good luck with your other project!

The only time I used the fake sugar was in my tea. And it was a new development, as I was a stauch coffee drinker before. The reason I gave up coffee (decaf), which I drank with about 1 Tbs of cream, was because it started irritating my stomach and exacerbating my rosacea symptoms. So I switched to tea (decaf), which I like almost as well. But I found that it tasted to much better with a packet of Splenda. This was a couple weeks ago.

First I fell off the wagon -- HARD -- and struggled to get back on. I have just had a successful week on re-Induction, but I also have been fighting cravings for sweets the whole way through. I think about them all day, every day.

I thought to myself, this isn't right. I'm doing Atkins Induction. The cravings always go away in a matter of days. So I started wondering about the Splenda of which I was consuming 4-6 packets a day. (I drink a lot of tea; it's how I get my water in.)

Yesterday I vastly reduced my Splenda consumption: I split one packet into two servings. Today I am abstaining completely and will continue to do so as I embark on a Christmas challenge with MissScruff and KiwiGal.

I feel the difference already. The cravings have diminished and I am certain that in a day or so, they will be gone completely.

For some of us, just the taste of something sweet may trigger sweet cravings. Whether mental or physical I don't know. What I do know is that I can definitely do without them!

In effect, I just conducted an experiment on myself. If I want to get rid of "the hungries," then I need to get rid of the fake sugars and eat only whole foods, such as meat, eggs, cheese, nuts (later) and vegetables.

Since my last post there was an article in my local paper about a study (and we take every study with a grain of salt usually) that was not related to low-carbing but to sleeping. The researchers found that sleep produces a hormone (can't remember the name) that suppresses the appetite which confirmed my reaction to lots of sleep. I lost my appetite almost completely.

Is it leptin?

Ghrelin and Leptin. Ghrelin makes you hungry, Leptin suppresses hunger. So they found when you're sleep deprived you produce more ghrelin (gremlins!) and less leptin.

Just as an anecdotal thing, 2 nights ago I had a miserable night, I was reading a good book, couldn't close it. I was starving the next day. Last 2 nights, slept really well. Appetite is way more manageable.

Hmmm... It does seem like the sweets elimination isn't working, MGW reports that she is still hungry after almost two weeks without them. (It will be two weeks as of Monday AM) Per our agreement, she will probably want to add them back unless there is a definite reason not to.

She does use them in considerable moderation, normally one bar / day of the Hershey's or Z-Carb bars that are about 1.1 - 1.2 oz / each, and made w/o maltitol. They are mostly erythritol and polydextrose fibers, along w/ sucralose, so aside from being sweet, they are probably not that bad, especially in the amounts she is eating.

I might see about trying to get more sleep, but it will be a challenge. Currently we tend to eat very late, after 11PM, just before she goes to bed between 12 & 1. I normally stay up another hour or two in order to have my evening smoke in the bathroom w/ the fan on. (Our compromise on the issue, though we are hoping that Santa might get us an air filter that will let me smoke in my office instead...)

Gooserider