Originally Posted by neddas

I think I'm not expressing myself well here! I'm not asking Nancy to prove anything, I'm talking about most rather than all, as in most people can't gain eating lc even when in calorie excess.. that's all!

Originally Posted by amergin

"Those of us who eat combined high fat with LC tend to have rather low levels of insulin in our blood stream. Low levels of insulin mean low levels of activity in the lipoprotein lipase just outside our fat cells. If there was no other way of getting fat out of chylomicrons or VLDL particles and in to adipocytes, we LC eaters would be as chronically hypertriglyceridaemic as a diabetic on a low fat diet. No one would want that.

In to the gap steps ASP, which allows us to store the fat from our current meal as adipose tissue for use in the time before our next meal. On intermittent fasting or once daily eating we HAVE to store an awful lot of fat until we next eat. ASP gets fat in to adipocytes for us, without needing an insulin spike. Good.

What gets the fat out of adipocytes? That's hormone sensitive lipase (HSL from here onwards). "



"Fat intake should be relatively low (by Kwasniewski standards only!) to keep total calories below those needed by our metabolism, otherwise ASP will store more fat than HSL will release. HSL will only ever release enough FFA for the metabolic needs in a healthy person.

On top of that basic plan, the basal metabolic rate must be normal. If a person is hypothyroid they will require far less FFAs for their metabolism and so HSL will adjust to this and minimise fat break down. ASP won't, so a high fat diet will produce weight gain if calories are in excess of metabolic needs."

What'cha all think?

Originally Posted by Nancy LC

I think two things happen on low carb. One is your appetite is vastly diminished. So you think you're eating a lot but you're not.

Originally Posted by Seejay

It is so and not so at the same time. Because using calories as a measure, because they behave differently in different people, the conclusion is circular. How do we know if it's too much? only by the gain. If a person didn't gain then it wouldn't be too much.

One person can eat 100000 calories and not gain.
Another person can eat the same amount and gain.
Only the second has eaten "too much."

Originally Posted by M Levac

The evidence about ASP comes from laboratory experiments, i.e. in vitro. There is no in vivo evidence that a high fat diet causes excess fat accumulation. Indeed, there is evidence to the contrary. So no matter how strong our belief, it remains a belief with ezzactly zero effect on reality. However, this assumes a person of normal weight to begin with. For a person who is underweight to begin with, then eating food will cause them to grow back up to normal weight. Fat happens to be food. For a person who is obese, fat won't make them gain weight. For a person who was obese and is now of normal weight, there is the possibility that the previous diet broke something that hasn't yet been fixed which would make maintaining weight a problem. But that last is just my opinion.

Here's that argument that makes ASP irrelevant: If ASP has the ability to cause fat to be stored into fat cells without insulin, then why can't diabetics type 1 grow any fat?

Originally Posted by Frederick

Ah, doesn't it defy all reason to presume otherwise?

Originally Posted by costello22

Nope. There are very valid reasons to presume otherwise. The issue is hormones, not calories. Your appetite, metabolism, energy level ("impulse to move"), etc., are driven by hormones.

Originally Posted by Frederick

I'm not suggesting hormones aren't an integral part of the weight equilibrium relationship.

What I believe is that a person will gain weight if he eats 10 lbs of ribeye steaks per day even if no carbs are ingested.

Originally Posted by karatepig

I have always wondered how the amount a food item raises the temperature of water when burned is supposed to show how much energy it supplies the body. But, a basic understanding of physics tells me, that the biological machine that is the human body, has an exact energy requirement for every activity it carries out. I also know that the human body stores energy it has no immediate use for. Finally, this energy comes from food. Therefore, if one consumes too much food, one will store energy. And this stored energy takes the form of fat.
Equally as self-evident to me is that energy requirements vary by individual, so please understand that I do not contest that. What I find hard to believe, is that one cannot gain when eating a healthy, natural diet, AKA, one free from processed crap, grains, and excess carbs.