Wcollier you seem very educated regarding fats. I can't seem to get a straight answer about this anywhere, maybe you can help. What is your opinion on cooking with fats? I know that some fats are better to cook with than others because some are more resistant to high heats and thus less likely to oxidize... however, is it always better to eat fat raw? Basically I'm wondering if cooking with olive oil over canola to prevent free radical damage is kinda like eating whole grain vs refined grain to prevent diabetes. Is it merely the less destructive option, or is it actually totally neutral?

Also what is your opinion on bacon grease? If collected and refrigerated is it acceptable to use again in cooking, or is it damaged?

For flavor I do most egg frying and sauteeing in butter and bacon grease. Veggies I either steam (topping later with an olive oil based dressing or butter), or I fry them in bacon grease or olive oil. I do notice sometimes the fat smokes and burns. Even when I cook my meats I notice they get charred and burnt at times. I imagine this must be damaging the food some how, and it's probably best to eat things more on the raw side. This is just my hunch though, I have no idea whether or not it's true.

Thanks Kristine, I'll keep that tip in mind

I know from working in the restaurant business, that saturated fats have a higher smoking point and last longer in the fryer before breaking down. And I too cook with bacon and sausage grease, excellent flavor. Its the unsaturation sites that will become free radicals when oxidized. I saute in olive or canola, they have similar fatty acid compositions. Canola is a lot cheaper. And the Maillard reactions that give you brownness might create carcinogens, they must because they are so tasty.

Just my thoughts...

I generally feel that supplements, beyond a good multi and some fish oil, aren't really necessary until you hit your 20s but are definitely needed once you hit 24. Why do I consider 24 the magic number and not before? Personal observation that many health problems start manifesting then. People can still, and do, grow until their early 20s, and historically, unless in the presence of health extremes and disability, young people can abuse/injure their bodies and bounce back quickly until then, also younger people are generally more physically and socially active, which has accompanying good health benefits. Younger people also have less responsibility and more free time which also equates to more healthful activities/outcomes.

Then comes 24. What happens between say 21 and 24? School and summers of freedom are likely over. College is generally over, for those who went, and people settle in to the grind of a job and maybe family. The day goes from one where time is spent getting out and around during daylight hours to being confined in an office environment for most of the day. There is the stress of day to day living/existence, it's your responsibility now, not that of your parents'. Pregnancy and childbirth is a factor for women. Parenting and providing constitute a stress for both men and women.

So in my view, whatever health reserves you've accumulated up until 21 you're now depleting between 21 and 24. By 24, you have none left. The body starts to exibit physical signs of nutritional/vitamin deficiencies. It also doesn't repair as well or operate as efficiently as in a person's younger years.

Interestingly, I've just been studying vitamin D deficiencies.

Did you know that a deficiency in vitamins D and A has far reaching implications in a host of diseases/impairments (it's my latest hobbyhorse, lol!!)? And even of the bodies' ability to utilize and metabolize other vitamins/nutrients from food?

Funnily enough, the one thing you get more of at a younger age than at 21 to 24 and older is sun!!! Also funnily enough, they are finding deficiencies and more health problems at younger ages than ever before!!! Gee, do you think this can be due to the lack of sun and therefore lack of vitamins D and A that children/young people get because of sunblock, computer games, sedentary lifestyles, rising obesity, elimination of school physical education and sports, and unsafe streets and neighborhoods? I'm certainly starting to think so!!!

So....maybe I need to rethink my position and adjust my age floor for supplementation downward. I'm starting to think so, lol!!!

I try to take supplements but I keep forgetting =). I do have a MRP shake once a day (100% of just about everything including calcium) but that's because they are yummy :P. I also gag down some udo's oil on days where I am low on EFA's plus I throw in some canned salmon, again because it tastes good.

Fitday shows me at 100+% on everything, so it's the 'other' supps I forget to take, not the vitamin related ones. Ah well. :P

If that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to supplement younger so you don't deplete your "reserves"?

Personally, I think there are beneficial times for reasonable amounts of supplementation...growth, pregnancy, and when under stress, coupled with an insufficient dietary intake of the majority of nutrients. Barring SEVERE deficiency, megadoses of any one vitamin have no real merit, IMO, other than making some vitamin-rich, expensive urine.

Hi Itsthewooo:

I wrote a little blurp back on page 3 in response to another poster that will probably answer some of your questions.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...12&postcount=35

Quote:

however, is it always better to eat fat raw? Basically I'm wondering if cooking with olive oil over canola to prevent free radical damage is kinda like eating whole grain vs refined grain to prevent diabetes. Is it merely the less destructive option, or is it actually totally neutral?

If one were really concerned about their health, Udo Erasmus recommends NOT frying with fats at all. But if you cook with them, the more saturated they are, the better, but make sure that it stays under the smoke point. As you already suspected, once it starts to smoke, the fat is damaged. Even butter fat will smoke, since butter has some EFAs in it (that's what the dark color is on butter when it's left out at room temperature or exposed to air - oxidized fat). I normally fry on the lowest temperature possible using coconut oil or butter and I will often use water to cool down the temperature, esp for stir-fries.

His list (in order) of oils least damaged by high temps are: medium chain triglycerides (less than 1 T), butter, tropical fats, high oleic sunflower (not the regular kind), high oleic safflower (not the regular kind), peanut oil, sesame oil, then olive oil.

Essentially, there's no way to fry without consuming damaged fats. Try to minimize the damage and make sure to include lots of antioxidant-rich food with your food to combat the effects of free radical damage. Garlic is the king of antioxidants.

From a health perspective, it's most likely already damaged. I don't re-use fat and I never deep fry.

Yes, as if the fat issue isn't bad enough, meat shouldn't be cooked at high temps either, for optimal health. First, the EFAs in the fat (there is some) gets damaged, then carcinogenic compounds are formed from burning/charring meat as well (especially from BBQs).

Again, it's almost impossible to prevent the damage, but antioxidants can come to the rescue. For this reason, most of my supplements are antioxidants. I won't see specific results from taking them in the present, but over the long term, it's an expense I'm willing to pay to help combat being exposed to free radicals from food and an increasingly toxic environment.

Wanda

While doing CLA research, I discovered that CLA is formed in meats from grazing animals in response to cooking. This antioxidant can help mitigate the damage from those who like to BBQ.

http://whyfiles.org/051fat_fixes/cla.html

I remember awhile back someone discovered that marinating meat in fruit juices (like lemon) prevented a lot of the carcinogens from forming when bbq'ing.

What antioxidant supplements do you take? Are there lots of different types.......I mean do you just buy a bottle of 'antioxidant' tablets or do they have specific names? What are the best antioxidant foods?

Sorry if these are stupid questions..........I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject but would like to learn more.

Not stupid at all. I never met a free radical who deserved to be liked... (biochemical one's anyway)
Alpha Lipoic Acid is probably the most important, because it is fat and water soluble and recycles and repotentiates all the other antioxidants as well as being a potent free radical quencher in it's own right. Much more potent mg. for mg. at singlet oxygen free radical (not sure about other types)extinguishing than any other single antioxidant.
The others in rough order of supplement signifigance according to yours truly are:
Reservatrol
Selenium
zinc
vit C
N- Acetyl cysteine (Glutathione precursor)
Beta glucan
Vit E
Quercetin
VitA
.....and probably scores of others which probably occur in food in sufficient quantities to make supplementation pretty unnecessary, particularly if you are already minimizing your dietary production of free radicals. The same goes for all the above except Alpha Lipoic Acid Reservatrol, N - Acetyl Cysteine , Selenium , Beta Glucan, and Reservatrol , which occur in foods in only small amounts. That said, the best source of bio available selenium is Brazil Nuts which each contain a whopping 50mcg(approx). A couple of Brazil Nuts a day is the cheapest antoxidant insurance policy I know. Selenium also naturally chelates mercury, a handy trick in this day and age.
It wasn't till I read the Zone anti aging book that I discovered that most of the free radicals our bodies have to deal with do not come from environmental pollution (pesticides, herbicides, lead mercury, smog, overcooked food etc.) at all, but from a carbohydrate rich diet. Glycation from carbohydrate metabolism is really scary stuff, even if it( the carbs that is, not the glycation) wasn't making people constantly hungry or overweight as well.
You can waste a lot of time getting too tied up with getting enough and the right amounts of antioxidants. I certainly have. There is so much misinformation and disagreement even among the so called antioxidant authorities, and there are probably heaps of people even just on this forum who dispute my ranking. Atkins' Age Defying Vitanutrient Solution is a very informative place to start. You're streets ahead of the average Food Pyramid 'healthy lifestyle' punter just by reducing the carbs, so don't stress too much about what to take and not to take. It sure is interesting though.

Thanks Fatburner, I feel better now . It’s not hard getting carried away on this subject is it? Even though I know my diet is 100 times better now than what it used to be, these days I find myself in a mild panic every time I eat a piece of crispy bacon or bbq’d meat. I’m sure too that just worrying about what supplements I should be taking is doing me more harm than not taking any in the first place. Think I’ll check out those books you mentioned………and start popping a few Brazil nuts……..

Re: colds, no, I don't think they necessarily prevent colds. But I used to get a cold every couple of months. I added vitamins C and E (and changed nothing else), and I don't think I've had one since. So they might not prevent colds in everyone, or even most people, but I'm not giving them up anytime soon.

And I started taking the L-Carnitine fully convinced that it wouldn't make any difference at all in how I felt, so I don't think it was a placebo effect. Nothing else anyone recommended had any noticeable effect on my energy level.

Regarding my earlier comment on eating sardines as an alternative to taking fish oil supplements, the question of whether daily supplementation is necessary, I ran across the following information:

Dietary intake of omega-3 fats from seafood was associated with reduced risk of primary cardiac arrest compared with no fish intake; 5.5 g omega-3 fats per month or the equivalent of 1 fatty fish meal per week was associated with a 50% reduction in the risk of primary cardiac arrest.

So you don't have to eat sardines or herring every day to realize the benefits of EFAs. Which is good, because they aren't THAT tasty.

Reference: http://www.mercola.com/2002/apr/3/evolution.htm

Hi Zedgirl. It seems more antioxidants are being discovered all of the time. While it is possible to find a single pill that contains many different ones, you may still wish to supplement with additional items.

As a person in maintenance, my main vitamin is Atkins supplement number 1. It includes many common antioxidants, vitamins, and compounds to help your body convert fat into energy without losing muscle (though not as heavy on the weight loss supplements as other Atkin's formulas).

Vitamins, supplements, and antioxidants are really about good health and long life, right? If this is an important goal, you may want to check out the Life Extension Foundation (www.lef.org). They post many free articles and resources and have worked for many years to investigate and spread the word about health issues. They sell supplements that are rather expensive as well. They were one of the first groups to urge fish/flax oil supplements and CoenzymeQ10.

In addition to the Atkins #1 formula, I supplement with extra vitamin C, fish and flax oil, CoQ10, NAC, and green tea. I am considering Alpha lipoic acid and resveratol. It is certainly possible to spend a lot of money on supplements, but I trust those from Atkins and they seem to be a good place to start.