The poor in other countries -- and in our country a couple centuries ago -- simply did not have enough food, period.

Now the poor here have plenty of food, it's just all crap.

And when you breed people to eat carbs and sugar, in school and via marketing, that's what they want to eat anyway.

I live in Oklahoma as well nocarbkat, and one of the things that surprised me when I moved here was that although the rent is lower -- and jobs more scarce and lower paying of course -- that the cost of living food-wise was not appreciably different than it had been in southern coastal california. I'm astonished at what we spend on food.
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Yes, I'm really sure kids will sit down to a nice big bowl of lentils instead of mac-n-cheese.

Oh man! That made me laugh out loud!! Thanks for that!

PJ

Damn right they will! And they'll like it too!

It is jaw dropping. I have friends in other parts of the country that tell me the cost of living here is cheap, therefore why is my food bill so darn high. And its because I don't eat the same crap I find the stores here. I don't think there is anything that happens here in Oklahoma that doesn't have food involved. I hate to be this way, and I try not to, but I was in a local grocery store here and was looking into other people's carts and some of them all I saw was sugar and more boxed sugar. I have to wonder what they are thinking sometimes. But that is my own arrogance I think.

I think reason impoverish countries don't have the obesity problems we do here in the US is lack of choice. I read a book resently called, "The Paradox of Choice," by Barry Schwartz and he says in the book that people that have more variety in the their diets tend to eat more just naturally. And now in places like China where the lifestyle is becomming more Western they are developing some of the same health problems we are here in the west.

Pilotgal ~~ 33 years low carb, WOW, I am impressed!!

There are other factors involved than just food availability, too. I have no scientific studies to back me up, but I'd have to think depression and hopelessness would play a part in eating, too. If you feel like you aren't going to get anywhere in life and nothing you do is going to bring you up and out of poverty, are you really going to have the "fight" in you to figure optimal nutrition?

It's hard enough to make the best choices when you have the resources!

I think that you addressed a very salient point. The stress, hopelessness, and depression that accompanies being poor probably causes a rise in cortisol levels. I've worked with the inner city poor, and it truly is stressful worrying about childcare, healthcare, and trying to make your food budget stretch to the next paycheck.

It's a very different mindset, for sure. I've been there... We were Ramen-noodle poor for most of my childhood, and even as an adult, I had those times. You can't even see past survival when you're up against it. Even then, I still had more than a lot of people I know. At least I had hope, a clean safe neighborhood and people who took the time to give me a chance to work my way up.

It was up to me to TAKE the chance, but without someone believing in me and the fact the optimism hadn't been beaten out of me by life yet... <shudder> I guess what I'm saying is sometimes it takes all the strength you have to just exist... let alone thrive.

Something I was just thinking about. My Father fed me wonderful food growing up. Fresh vegies, meat, chicken, and some junk. Then we hit a period when he was out of work and didn't have much of anything. Hamburger Helper a lot(and he hated that fact ) canned vegies, and government assistance. A great argument has been made that you can buy healthy foods cheap, which I agree is true to a certain point. But I still stick to my own observation that junk food is much cheaper. Example. When we had to be on government assistance, the actual food you were given was powdered milk(disgusting), and government cheese. Huge blocks of processed American cheese. When we send aid overseas to the hungry, we send something with a grain base if I'm thinking correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. Besides the issure of being perishable, why do you think this is what they send? My theory is because its cheap! If it was cost efficient why would they not send steaks or chicken or something with some protein that they probly really need? Oh, and speaking of Ramen noodles, I went shopping Friday and bought some for my husband who loves them and realized I can get a flippin 8 pack for 99cents. Thats crazy!! Ok, off the soapbox Margie

I recently had a friend who wants to lowcarb ask me seriously: we have very little money. How can we do this? Meats and cheeses are pricey!

And I have to agree. They can buy massive top ramen, spaghetti, cheap bread, potatoes, SUPER CHEAP.

Buying meats and dairy is not cheap. They are not vegetarians and veggies alone would just not cut it especially for two people with a lot of lean body mass, the protein deficiency would do them harm.

For all the "philosophy" about how it's just as cheap to eat LC as HC, when the rubber hits the road on this topic I just don't see it. Maybe if you have a nearby warehouse store AND a membership AND a lot of cash to go buy mega-bulk packages there, sure you'll save more money per pound on stuff than buying it at the local grocer. But that builds in assumptions. What if you don't have those options? What if you don't have much money at any one time, and don't have a local costco/sams and membership? What if you don't have a 99c grocery like some towns do? What if you don't have a garden or it's winter? What if you don't have the car/driving money to go all over town just to save $1.20 here and there with a coupon? What then?

Big turkeys are my only useful suggestion -- as they are often less than a dollar a pound and the meat can go a long way and the bones can boil meat off for soup. Outside of that, I don't have many good ideas.

Who does? Do you guys have practical ideas for that situation?

PJ
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Keep in mind you are only spending money on food. You aren't buying potato chips, cookies, popcorn or other crap. Yes, chicken costs more than a box of macaroni and cheese. But if you are eating macaroni and cheese you have got to have the carby snack foods around to fill you up later when you get hungry again! Yes you buy more meat, but you buy less junk too. And, buying water is cheaper than soda pop.

Yeah but that's the subtraction theory of what makes eating LC affordable, and that builds-in 'assumptions' that aren't always true. Not everybody buys tons of junk food that they now magically have money freed up from it.

I've had plenty of times in my life that I had very little for groceries, and ate carbs because they were supercheap (big bags of potatoes, top ramen, cheap bread, margarine), and I wasn't buying junk food to add to that.

If I'd had the money for junk food I'd have had the money to eat better -- which is the point of course, but really if the question is about "not having much money" then the assumption isn't that people HAVE money they're just spending on extra junk food, but that they really just don't have much money. ;-)

Oh yeah. Another cheap carby food: popcorn, plain that you'd cook in a pan with oil. Sigh..........

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Oh I agree, not everyone was buying junk food before they started low carb. And I was one of them. I didn't buy chips before, and I don't buy them now. I was just trying to explain the kind of rationalization that goes on in my own head when I am shopping. Heck, I am even having trouble with the concept of buying water in bottles when I can get it out of my tap for a much better price.

I had to give myself permission to change how I grocery shop. We don't eat out, so I have to make sure there is enough food around that is both appealing and good for us.

I just want to make an example of myself here. My grocery bill per week runs between 180 and 240. Thats taking into consideration non-food items like laundry soap, diapers, etc. Thats for 5 people. I'd say around 20 to 25 of that is for carb items like bread, potatoes, treats, etc... You would think that much money is a lot, but its not. Add to the fact that I haven't had an oven, just a stove, for almost a year, and won't be getting one until tax time, and it makes it really hard. I grill a lot, but charcoal is expensive, plus it rains, plus it gets really cold. There are tons of cheap processed foods I could make on the stove, but I don't want to. So I have the stove and slow-cooker to work with. Its embarrassing to me I don't have an oven, so be kind please I've told my husband we need a deep freezer(its like my dream or something)so when meat goes on sale I can buy a bunch a freeze it. But where do I get the money to do that? I don't have a savings obviously(no oven!) Anyway, just an example of how one thing can snowball into another(poverty/obesity)

Oh, and I still think good food is considered a luxury, and somehow that has to change for everybody. I don't know how, but it needs too. I can't say I'd be skinny if I were rich, but theres a much better chance of it.

I've noticed this phenomenon too! For example- FROSTED shredded wheat costs LESS here (VA) than does PLAIN shredded wheat- which has 1 LESS ingredient! So MORE costs LESS and LESS costs MORE!
Is there a "conspiracy" brewing here or what!?

We have 6 blessings ourselves- so I use ALOT of coupons- and look for healthy items on sale w/our local Kroger that doubles coupons. Sometimes they'll even have their REAL cheese 10/10$ (1$ /ea.) So I stock up then- and even freeze it!

As for the meat- I usually buy in bulk, and sort and freeze it in my own bags at home. I also look for the meat markdowns to stock and freeze.

You can also look on products themselves- to get coupons. Today I grabbed a few off some brand name string cheese- as they were not on sale. But the coupons are good until 7/07 -So I will wait for them to go on sale- then use the 1$ off then.

Well- I believe shopping has turned back into HUNTING, as we MUST HUNT for healthy AFFORDABLE foods!