The CR premise hasn't been proven to be effective for humans either. In fact, the current model for HUMAN life extension via CR is estimated between 3% and 7% with the best guess tending toward the low end. According to the research, CR is not as effective for the larger, longer-lived mammals. Interestingly, data from the OKINAWANS was used as part of this model. The CR research is interesting, but purely as a device to research physiology. As a method to extend human life expectancy it is premature, and best guess from research is that it is largely ineffectual. Of course, those desperate to claw, dig and scrape for the barest few extra days or weeks of life, have eating or obsessive compulsive disorders have other priorities.

Under-eating to the point of depression, sexual disfunction, weakness, loss of stamina, etc is hardly optimal. Maintaining a normal body mass / body composition is not 'eating ourselves to death'. We are all going to die. And pay taxes. ;-)

Kind regards

I'll let Whoa defend CR because he knows a lot more about than

I'm just trying to point out the irony in saying they're starving themselves to death. All indications are they're starving themselves to a longer life.

Now I don't think I've got that sort of iron will power to be able to stick to it like these people have, so I won't even try. But I don't really see why people are so critical of those who are willing to be guinea pigs. It isn't a threat to you, your diet, your lifestyle, it might even be that we learn how to avoid the bad parts of CR and get the good effects thanks to a few people crazy enough to subject themselves to it.

Indications are they're not eating disordered, they're taking their health very seriously and probably many of them are being followed closely by doctors and researchers. Is that true, Matt?
Us looking at them and labeling them as disordered is a lot like someone eating the typical American diet and calling a low-carber disordered. I guess it just depends on your perspective.

Thats only a prediction made some by pretty smart people, one of those is a life extentionist named aubrey de grey... buts it's still not a a fact that this is all we can get from CR...
Okinawans have only been MIDLY CR'd for ONLY HALF of their adult lives, and been steadily increasing calories since the 1960's I believe (but also had the highest number of centenarians in the world). Okinawans now eat the same amount as the average japanese person and are starting to show the same disease rates. But okinawans did show a 20% longer remaining lifespan from age 65 than americans (wlicox's latest paper on okianwans and CR)

This is the paper
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...8&postcount=540

and Mutant, they said that CR wouldn't work in adult onset rodents for decades too, but they were wrong.

Michael rae makes an excellent argument for CR working in humans in his published paper

Rae MJ.
You don't need a weatherman: famines, evolution, and intervention into
aging.
AGE. 2006 March;28(1):93-109.
No PMID assigned yet.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s11357-006-9002-z

Request it by emailing me

That's right Whoa182, it's a prediction. Of course it's the best prediction that takes into account all available data and research as of late 2005 I believe, including the data on Okinawans. But it's the best CR has got. And it looks like a whopping 3% increase. Make the math easy, for a life expectancy of 80 years, that would give about another two and a half years of life. Another two and a half years of obsessing about calories, planning diets, reading CRON literature. Certainly their dinner parties don't look like much fun. I don't even want to imagine what the full bar and dinner buffet at a CRON wedding would be like, horrors! (That is, if the sexless neuters would want to get married). And I disagree Nancy, I think the CRON in general is eating disordered, particulary if they 'stick' with it for any length of time.

Insist, plead and cajole all you want Whoa182, 3% seems a VERY poor return for the investment. (Well, unless driven by other demons that have been previously discussed)

Kind regards

adventists have a life expectancy of 88, without CR...

Mutant, take a read of Michael paper (the guy u see in the photo).

Ok, the Adventists got a life expectancy of 88 without CR, WITH REGARD TO THE GENERAL POPULATION. This is very instructive, cuz this suggests that the bulk of the increased life expectancy to your dear Okinawans (no offense meant to any Okinawans reading this post) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CR. The best model that estimates the increased life expectancy do to CR is THREE PERCENT.

THREE PERCENT.

THREE PERCENT.

You can reference another long lived population somewhere, imply that it has something to do with CR and I will reply...

THREE PERCENT.

Of course I merely base my number on the best estimate that research allows. If I need some studies on how to make rats and mice live longer, I'll look ya up.

Kind regards

Geez Mutant, did a CRoner scare you as a small child? You sure have a visceral reaction to them.

In short, CRON is silly. Unless possibly you are a rodent. Even then, I'm not sure what would be the expected result of a non-cloned, non-mutant, common-variety rodent would be eating a natural diet in the wild would be. CRONies lives in desperate hope, fear and dismorphia. It's not like I'm trekking out of the low-carb backyard to go pick on the CRONies on their forums. I still puzzle what application this has to a low-carb diet. But hey, at least it's in the War Zone this time.

Kind regards

Yes, funding has been provided by the NIA or NIH (can't remember) and extensive testing has been carried out on some of the individuals mentioned in that article... Testing using the latest medical equipment at University of Washington in St Louis. Genetic testing for gene expression will also be done on CRers too very shortly, the members of the CR society have so far manage save half of the $200,000 to see if humans respond in a similar way to how other animals do genetically...
All CRers that I know are closely followed by their doctors... (we are not delusional and know we are taking risks). I see my doctor a lot and go for tests at least 3-4 times a year for the time being. Previous studies have looked for deficiencies or any problems that people doing CR may have with their health, and the only one so far is low bone mass, but bone quality is good. Otherwise CRONies pass with ease in all the medical criteria that deems one to be 'fit and healthy'.

We are guinea pigs for science... At least some of us are looking for the answer to whether this works or not right, don't you think CRers have already thought about this possibility? If no one does it then we will never know the answer and it will be pure speculation. We are hardly going to get a good sample from africa are we? Especially when CR comes with some very important conditions for it to work.

Also, our oldest CRONie is almost 104 years old by the way, and he started CR in his 60s! And we have a few approaching their 90's. The long term CRers do look expentionally young for their age though (10-15y + Cronies).

I personally don't have a strict CR, I just go anywhere between 1700-1800 and sometimes as high as 1900... I take a much more relaxed approach to it.

Three percent.

Come on Mutant, at least try to be respectful and not engage in childish behavior. As Nancy pointed out, nobody is forcing you to CR. In fact, no one cares.

Whoa is very respectful of other people's opinions and seems open to new ideas if well-supported by research.

The 3% you repeatedly quote is only a guess, or an estimate...

TBoneMitch, what ya want? It's already posted in the War Zone, and as far as I and a few others can tell, it's not about low-carb. The 3% that is referenced is the best estimate from well-supported research. I'm not sorry it's not well received, I'm somewhat sorry it's not related to low-carb tho. Did you have something to contribute to this non low-carb discussion, or your turn to play hall monitor?

Kind regards (it's not a signature, I really type this in every time )

Sorry Mutant, but I totally agree with TBoneMitch on this one!

Bo

Mutant, can you provide a reference for this 3% you keep tossing around?