I've been keeping track of both total and net, but using the net to calculate the values for the Kwasniewski plan, since I understand that's how they are counted in Europe. Yesterday, for example, my total was 59g but the net was 39g, which is right at the bottom of my ON range.

Patrick, thank you for that. I only have half-moons now on my thumbs, and they are very small (but now growing - though still none on any of my other fingers). I suspected thyroid problems a few months ago (from reading forums here, from my low body temp. and from having gained 10 pounds in the last year for no reason whatever) -- which is why I did the 1200 calories a day marathon. I had my annual physical just after that and wanted to convince my GP to do a full thyroid bank and give me a recommendation to an endo.

The blood work results show a normal high TSH but problems with T3 and T4, and fabulous Trig's (49) and HDL (97) but an unexplained and continuously rising TC (341). Apparently high TC with no other symptoms is attributed to thyroid problems as well. Recommended treatment isn't statins, but thyroid meds.

My appointment with the endo is mid-May - so this is yet another symptom (I have a long list) I can give her that points to the same problem.

Again, thanks for taking the time to look this up.

Lisa

Debbie, then by all means eat them. I do. Just count them.


This is the second time I've seen something like this on one of the threads. I think there's some mix-up about confusing the gram or ounce weight of an item - and the number of grams of protein that item contains. An average chicken thigh with skin weighs 62 grams (just over 2 ounces) -- but only contains 16 grams of protein. Just as an example, if you ate no other protein but chicken thighs for the day, and could only eat 64 grams of protein, you could eat over half a pound of thighs (by weight) and not go over your protein allotment by a single gram.

A single ounce of meat (like the chicken thigh) would only be about 7 grams of protein.

Have you been weighing things on the scale and taking that number for your gram count?

Lisa

Well, I went with definitely higher carbs yesterday and had rather high fasting blood glucose this morning, it was over 100. I'll give my body a few more days to work that out.

Nope. I *have* been weighing things on the scale, but then I just input that number into my Lifeform software, and let *it* tell me how many grams of protein I've had.

For example, my total protein for today that I have eaten is 34g, but that's because I have had no muscle meat of any sort and little dairy. It comes mostly from eggs, bacon, and liverwurst plus a 1/2 oz of cheese. I have 4g of ground beef defrosted to make a hamburger for dinner tonight. Lifeform tells me that 4 oz (raw weight) of ground beef has 18g of protein. Adding that to my total will bring up up to 52g which is the bottom end of my ON range (which is 52-64). So I *could* have a little extra in addition to the hamburger. But I have had no veggies yet today. The veggie protein really adds up - as someone (sorry, forget who now) posted the other day, the 2/3 cup of boiled spinach I had with my meal accounted for 3.5g of protein as well. Nuts also, a small handful of chopped walnuts on a salad makes the protein shoot up.

For example, if I wanted to have a slice of the Optimum Diet nut bread with dinner to make a sort of sandwich of my hamburger - well one slice adds 9g of protein, so add that to the 52g I'm already up to, and that takes me to 61g, almost my max - though there is a tiny bit of headroom for a sliver of cheese or a tomato slice or two.

I'm keeping close to my numbers today only because I have been veggie-free.

European prepared foods like Wasa crispbreads packed in Scandinavia show net carbs on their labels, but I don't know if European versions of nutrition data books or websites report vegetable carbs with the fiber subtracted. Even in the US, carb content is often determined "by difference", meaning the protein & fat contents are measured and the rest is assumed to be carbs. It costs more to determine the total, soluble and insoluble fiber amounts. This is also why carb contents often vary quite a bit among brands with nutrition labels for nuts or frozen/canned vegetables. If you take a 100g plump peach and burn it in a calorimeter, you will get a different answer than if you start out with a 100g dried out old peach.

Any Europeans out there with a European book similar to Corinne Netzers' Complete book of food counts?

I have noticed that my skin has cleared up - I tend to get back acne and a little along the chin line even at forty and I understand that 'hungry/full' feeling that a few have talked about since I have upped my fat intake and tried to lower my protein. I have neither gained nor lost any weight since the week and a half, it fluctuates a little during the day but still averages 130.

I have never heard of thyroid problem associated with finger 'moons', I only have them on my thumbs as well but never thought about checking my thyroid - will read more on that subject.

I have no clue who this Corinne Netzer is, but I do have a German book of nutrition tables with carb counts per 100g, which is my bible for my carb count. It does give grammes of protein per 100g, too, and seems to be quite detailed. One thing it does which annoys me is that it doesn't give the carb amounts for the cooked version of legumes like lentils, etc, but then I just use the numbers that appear on the canned version. Pretty much all the legumes seem to have about 15g of carbs per 100g, so I use that as a rule-of-thumb guideline.

Is this the kind of book you're after?

amanda

Could this possibly be due to the fact that your body needs time to get used to dealing with the extra fat in your diet? Your body will need to be producing more lipase to deal with the fat, I do believe.

Are heartburn and indigestion the same thing? I have heard of someone else say that she got indigestion from switching to LC/HF.

These problems could also possibly be caused by low levels of hydrochloric acid and/or digestive enzymes to deal with the new foods.

As far as I know, it is possible to buy both hydrochloric acid and digestive enzymes as supplements in most countries. These might help your body to deal with the higher fat load whilst it gears itself up for producing different amounts of stomach acid etc.

Just an idea...

amanda

Me neither! I have "big" moons on my thumbs, but hardly any visible moons on my fingers. But my metabolism is pretty fast: doesn't that rule me out for a low thyroid condition???

I really don't want to have anything new to worry about!!!

Can anyone reply to this in my journal? I don't want to hijack this thread!

amanda

Which is why you shouldn't eat it. The recipes in OD are NOT compatible with the very low protein that obese people need to eat. It's made with egg whites, which is also something that should be tossed for the immediate future.

A slice of Pepperidge Farm very thin sliced bread has only 1g of protein instead, and holds a lot of butter, or cream cheese, etc. Two slices would hold your burger nicely and only add 2 g protein. And you may need to cut down on all the proteins -- eggs and bacon and liverwurst and hamburger and cheese -- in a single day, and spread them out a bit over the course of a couple of days. I'll eat egg yolks (I'm assuming that's what you meant by 'eggs' above) and bacon for breakfast, sure, but then my only other animal protein will be something for dinner. No cheese that day, and no egg white bread, either. If you were to do that you'd be able to have plenty of veggies at every meal.

My protein today came mainly from 2 ounces of salmon pate for lunch (virtually no protein for breakfast) and 3 ounces of chicken livers tonight. Some veggies and a small baked potato loaded with butter and sour cream, and ice-cream with whipped cream on top for dessert gave me my carbs and fats. That's it.

I know it's hard to start thinking this way - and to avoid eating animal-based protein throughout the day (except for heavy cream, which has little protein) -- but you'd be amazed at how easy it becomes after a while.

Lisa

Except that it's made with wheat, which causes me severe gastrointestinal issues and which I avoid like the plague. My plan is for wheat never to pass my lips for the rest of my life. I don't have the severity of symptoms of someone with celiac, but if I eat anything with wheat my whole world goes into a tailspin not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well.

Not to mention that most of the bloggers and books I trust seem to feel that wheat is virtually a poison to the human body, but most people don't even realize it as it is so all-pervasive in everything we eat (just like HFCS, ) we don't even realize how bad it makes us feel!

But I *know* how bad it makes me feel, which makes it easy to avoid for me.

But I'm still working this out, and so far today went very well!

I wouldn't get too excited about "moons" (aka Lunala) disappearing. It's a normal part of aging. I haven't seen anything I'd consider reputable suggesting it is linked to thyroid disease in the few minutes I took to look, just hearsay mostly.

Ouch! I understand. What about flax bread? Can you get that near you? My main 'raft' for goodies is Joseph's LC flax pita bread, which I get at my local supermarket. I slice them in half horizontally, and use the circle as a base for LC pizza, or loaded with butter or cream cheese or PB & J -- or stuffed with a burger! Only 4g protein for a half.


Sounds like it did - and good for you for getting your protein so low. I bet you see the results of that in a day or two.

Lisa

Nancy, I went looking at about the same time you did, and I agree - there's really nothing much out there. But I did find this, which I thought was interesting for our group. I've got this condition (not surprising, given what I now know) -- but it's going away and only on a few fingers. A few months ago it was on all of them.

Indentations:

Ridges running lengthwise (longitudinal) on the nail surface usually indicate a problem of not being able to digest or absorb nutrients. The most common nutrients involved are iron, calcium, and protein, which all require adequate amounts of hydrochloric acid from the stomach.