I know that feeling! It is awful. A whole nother degree from a bad mood.

Once you get this, you win. You already won the hardest part of all.

Are you having plenty of protein and a variety of fats, while keeping sugar and starches low? Oh for everything to heal fast!

Have you tried loud music? Or doing something exciting like performance art? ha ha, I never would do that, but both those things can raise happy brain chemicals too. Oh, and risky sex. Never mind that for me!

One time a friend and I were moaning about our bad lives (and they really were bad). Somehow we remembered that women supposedly turn in on themselves, so we decided for once to turn it outward. We went to Radio Shack and bought a power horn, and then we went to the local suicide bridge. And then we shouted through the power horn, everything we would eat over.

Can you imagine shouting all this over a power horn off a suicide bridge?

"my husband left after 17 years for a woman in braces!"
"my kid's dad stood her up and she was crying at the window!"
"I am living beyond my means about X dollars every month!"
"My winter coat is really really ugly and too tight and I can't afford another one!"
"My house is tented for exterminating bugs!"

It was a riot. But one of the neighbors heard the shouting but not the words and called the police. How embarrassing.

Yes! It is different from a bad mood. I am very attached to my pets and I know what it is to grieve when one dies. But that sadness, while very real, does not touch the dark, almost horrifying, sense of doom that comes with real depression.

I do believe that protein and healthy fats are the first step. I am listing my diet as "Organic Dukan" because I have learned that going almost zero carb makes sobriety a LOT easier. The sugar from food carbs sets me up for alcohol cravings and the alcohol sets me up for sugar/starch cravings. Nonstarchy vegetables and olive oil seem to be neutral and protein makes it all doable. For now, I am in the Dukan "attack phase" only with grass fed beef, organic eggs, and wild caught fish. In a few days I will add salad vegetables and olive oil and then begin alternating days, the way Dukan does. I don't go as low fat as Dukan recommends (I don't think it is either necessary or healthy). I don't use the oat bran he recommends, either, because it has the same effect on my moods as any other starch.

Yes, Nancy. Sugar and alcohol intake are closely related to breast cancer rates. I also believe that intermittent fasting supresses tumor growth. Right now I am concentrating on eliminating the poisons and re-entering ketosis. I plan to reintroduce 20-22 hour fasts in a week or two as well.

As for getting help, I have no patience with "talking cures." I went through cycles of that kind of thing when I was a school girl and found it a complete waste of my time and energy. It is definitely a YMMV situation, of course.

The best support I have found is on boards like this, where I can articulate my thought processes and get feedback from people who have been through the same things.

Thanks for the good wishes!!!

Actually, I can believe this would help! When I was much younger and dealing with depression I would put something really loud on the record player and sit with my head right next to the speakers. It seemed to drown out all feeling--really was almost an emotional anesthetic! I bet you continued to feel better, even though you were embarassed!

Very cool, Seejay.

I agree. It is hard to describe for others who haven't felt it. Very scary too. And did you know that there are no meds for low beta-endorphin, which I bet is the neurotransmitter for that particular dark feeling? We have them for seratonin now, and ones that interact with dopamine. But not much for endorphins. Well except sugar.

It is so important to figger out what works. For me, paradoxically, zero carb also made things worse. I finally figured out it was because my body could not make new glucose fast enough for my needs, and then my blood sugar would drop, and then I would get an adrenaline surge and a big hit of sugar from the liver. And then I might as well have ingested the sugar - same problems. So, with a basically broken metabolism, the Optimum diet works for me - a trickle of starch/veg carbs for glucose, just-right protein, fats, and not much fibrous veg. I never crash any more and mood is good. It took a while though I must say.

I have a history of alcohol and I think it really slowed down my liver, hence the problems with zero carb.

Yes, the high seemed to last for days!

Fifty percent of child abuse survivors develop adult obesity. That makes me assume a lot of us obese people have childhood issues at the core. I know I do. I also know that the therapy I'm going through for Complex PTSD won't magically make me lose weight, but it will help me be more mindful of what I eat and not use food as a drug. I also agree that eating low carb gets rid of my carb cravings, so I'm hoping with both in place I will be successful.

I think even the childhood abuse and trauma ends up being hugely physical too. The increased stress makes people reach for junk food as a stress reducer. Unfortunately the junk food depletes minerals and vitamins and displaces nutrition, so the person unfortunately digs a deeper hole. Also, just like with first responders, an abuse survivor's body is adapted to way more time in "fight flight freeze feed" which is sugar burning. (high adrenaline, high cortisol, high drama) The whole metabolism is tilted one way and it needs to move back to more fat-burning.

i would load up on minerals and vitamins as well, for being as effective as cognitive or behavioral therapy.
Iodine, selenium, magnesium, copper.

Let me tell you, it is very emotional too. I will load up on the vitamins, and the trauma therapy, and between the two will be healthy. I don't believe you can seperate the two.

oh right, not an either/or! more like one and then the other and then the one and then the other, LOL

I was astonished that my incredible tiredness lifted when I treated it with 1,000 mg Vitamin C a day, twice a day. I did other things for "Adrenal Fatigue" such as ditched coffee and did stress relief with Chakra meditation. It made such an amazing difference.

I think such nutritional support might help people with PTSD; I had chronic stress for years and this gives me hope that I am truly healing the toll it took on me; body and soul.

I totally agree, I am reminded to eat healthy foods often by my docs, their idea and mine are a bit different, lol, and also to meditate. I meditate loving kindness every day. I have found if I don't berate myself, I can gently move myself back to the right path and it becomes easier to eat good foods. Loving and showing compassion towards myself has been the hardest thing I've every done, but I am making headway. I am having trauma therapy, which is a bit different than CBT or DBT, although both are included. It is not easy, but I will get through it.

I stopped seeing my therapist and need to find another. She was just odd. We didn't gel well at all. I did find out somethings about myself, but time to go therapist shopping again. It's so exhausting and you feel like you're interviewing someone for a job and you're not sure the right questions to ask. Urghh!

Sorry to hear, but it's always best to end a poor relationship!