Interesting thread! Personally, I favor labelling and let me ban them myself with my pocketbook. I don't want the government telling me what I should or shouldn't do! Unfortunately most people don't read labels (or know what to look for), and we have been raised to believe that if it's on a shelf therefore it must be ok for us.

Another thought... it's a little different here in the US since we don't have nationalized healthcare, but I could understand if the government felt beholden to the taxpayers of Canada to ban things they believe are harmful and burden this system. I wonder if this will become more of a trend as healthcare and drug costs continue to rise? Here in the US it is profitable for people to get sick and need treatments, so there is less financial incentive to just ban things without extensive proof.

Nancy LC said

Hi Nancy,
It is presently illegal to sell unpasteurized milk in Canada. However, it has been legal for many years in California and other states. In California, the record on unpasturized milk is reported as flawless, while several outbreaks of bacterial contamination, including deaths, have occurred with pasteurized milk.

Remember that sweet unpasturized apple cider is aready for sale in Canada. Perhaps it should be banned too? We could also ban all foods with pesticides on them. It is possible that pasteurized milk is so bad it should be banned too. However, I am willing to allow others a choice on that one, but I think it should go both ways.

Let the people choose. If I had a choice, I would have no fluoride in the water, but it is still here (Nova Scotia). Recently it has been suggested that statin drugs are so good they should be placed in our water supply. Should the government mandate that?

Babies generally have another source of unpasteurized milk so that generally should be no problem for them. Older folks can read a label. Here are a few more observations about raw milk. I can't vouch for the absolute veracity of these statements, however, some references are supplied:

1) Only one-third of people worldwide retain the ability to digest lactose into adulthood. Several sources (e.g., http://www.hps-online.com/troph9.htm) suggest raw milk is easier to digest than pasteurized milk because of the presence of lactase, the enzyme that breaks down milk sugar. Others dispute that lactase even exists in raw milk. The solution, according to one raw milk producer, is that the friendly bacteria in raw milk facilitate the creation of lactase in the human intestine and that is why lactose-intolerant people can drink raw milk without a problem. Pasteurization kills these friendly bacteria. (http://www.realmilk.com/spring2004.html)

2) Various literature, but particularly that introduced in hearings in California suggest that raw milk is naturally antiseptic and the record is safer than pasteurized milk. Moreover, it can be used to cure a variety of diseases from tuberculosis to asthma, psoriasis, Crohn's disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, multiple sclerosis and obesity. (http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm)

3) On the other hand, pasteurized milk has been associated with causing milk allergies, still births, infant colic, sudden death syndrome, ear infections, ovian/ breast/ prostrate and other cancers, heart attacks, asthma, sterility, early death, Addison’s Disease, Crohn's disease, osteoporosis, obesity, diabetes and other health problems. (http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm,
http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/29/pasteurized_milk.htm)

4) Famous cheeses are made from raw milk - Parmesan, Roquefort, Gruyère, brie, Camembert and Epoisses, not to mention Mapledale's delicious white cheddar and Chaput's goat Briquette. A (Canadian) federal exemption exists to permit the production and sale of un-pasteurized cheese, under the Food and Drug Act Section B.08.002.2(2)

5) Sale of raw milk is permitted by national regulations in most European countries. Two types of raw milk are available:
1. Certified raw milk, which is monitored for pathogenic microorganisms by the national authorities.
2. Milk which is produced and sold to the consumer on the farm directly without microbiological monitoring.

6) In the US the results are as follows:

29 states - permit the sale of raw milk for human consumption or endorse stewardship programs.
2 - permit the sale of raw goat milk with a medical prescription.
15 - prohibit the sale of raw milk.
4 - prohibit the sale of raw milk for human consumption, but permit the sale of raw milk for animal consumption with no added food dye, implying human consumption is feasible.

In total, raw milk is legal in 31 out of 50 US states, and if you include the states which permit the sale of raw milk for animal consumption, the total is 35 out of 50 states (70%).

7) Concerned Canadian citizens have formed the Natural Milk Coalition of Canada (NMCC) to promote raw milk sales. As a result, Health Canada requested NMCC make a submission explaining how unpasteurized milk is healthier than pasteurized milk, and how unpasteurized milk can be made safe for consumers. On March 19, 2003 NMCC filed its submission to Health Canada on unpasteurized milk. In July, 2004 NMCC was advised that a decision had been taken and was awaiting approval of “higher-ups” prior to release. Depending on the final decision, the NMCC also has contingency plans to challenge present laws claiming they are unconstitutional 1) because they conflict with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and 2) because the federal government has no jurisdiction in this area. (www.Naturalmilk.org)

9) Canadian raw milk producers have been circumventing present laws by selling cow shares. By law, cow owners (only) are allowed to drink raw milk from their cows. (http://realmilk.com/summer2001.html)

9) On February 3, 2004, a Program Manager at Ontario Ministry of Agriculture And Food verbally confirmed that it is legal in Ontario to sell raw milk for animal consumption. The label should read, "For Pet Consumption Only, Unpasteurized."

10) According to a Canadian government document, a quarter of a million Canadians drink unpasteurized milk. A farmer interviewed by CTV News said the demand is high. Some customers travel more than 200 kilometres to buy illegal milk. The farmer is quoted as follows: "I would say my customers beg for the milk. It's not even asking. They beg for the milk." (Black market for raw milk growing in Canada) Jennifer Tryon, CTV Food Specialist Dec. 18, 2002)
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...?hub=TopStories)

taming said

I think you are right. Trade is where the rubber will hit the pavement on this isuue. Partially hydrogenated soya oil is likely the most used trans fat because it is so cheap. However, the soya bean industry is huge in the US. Once the trade issues are identified, that will be the end of the ban here.

So if we ban trans fats from USA would it be legal, USA bans our softwood or charges a 26% tax on our sfotwood and its illegal, maybe it will add some politcal clout to have the laws followed as far as NAFTA goes. Might be a good thing LOL.

True, it might be a small play in the BSE (beef export) and softwood lumber negotiations and give the US a reason to drop these trade barriers - if it gets that far. However, I expect the trade negotiators with Agri-food Canada will want to squelch this before it blows up into other issues (canola, for one). Now that the US government is in the hands of republican legislators - the border was expected to open anyway. However, the US trade balance and budget deficits (and sinking dollar) are becoming a real concern. If trans-fats become a negotiating tool, it will be a gentle one. The US can always do much more damage to Canada trade-wise then vice-versa (Canada's GDP is 35% $US, US GDP is 3% $Cdn) - so don't expect too much.

Woodpecker said


I blew it on this one. Given this start, maybe they'll ban pasteurized milk.

Grimalkin:

I'm glad someone tends to agree with me that government is not the area where we should turn to in order to "ban" or "accept" what is healthy for our own bodies. If I believed everything government said, I'd happily consume a lot of breads and never eat meat. These are the same people that created the food pyramid, and we're happy they're banning trans fats? I'd rather not give them the power to promote or deny any products I want to put in my body.

Glad I don't live in Canada, that national health care scares the bejeezus out of me.

The US bans cyclamates (Canada does not). Regulating food is not just a Canadian issue. Both health care systems have problems--just not the same ones.

I take it you have enough money to pay for health care for yourself and your family then. Many americans do not. My young cousins family had to sell their house and live in a shelter to pay for her meningitis treatment....I am sure you would feel differently if you were in a situation such as that.

Well, your HMOs scare the bejeezus out of us. We view medical care as a fundamental right, regardless of income or status; not a for-profit industry where the name of the game is to deny as many claims as you possibly can for the sake of the almighty dollar.

After thinking about this issue more...

I'm entirely certain part of the reason for this ban is to try to encourage businesses to use more canola oil in place of the margerines, which would of course be good for Canada's economy since they produce it.
Since I don't feel canola oil is very healthy either, I can't say I support this.

If they wanted to encourage people to use less processed fats, like dairy or cold pressed seed/nut oils, I would be for the move. However, from where I'm sitting now, this just looks like a decision based on economics and not so much health.

That might be the reason some people/groups supported it, but knowing the NDP, it is not the reason they introduced the bill. It also depends on where they set the limits as the most commonly grown varieties of Canola have too much trans fat to meet Denmark's limits when made into a standard margarine.

I tend to agree with taming on this. The new democratic party isnt influenced by big bussiness, at least to the extent of the more right leaning parties.
At least in canada, a extremelly large percentage of margarine was/is already made with canola oil (that is hydrogenated), and I really do not think it will change the amount of canola being used more than at most a tiny margin.

Scared of being able to afford the best health care in the world, now that’s spoken like a true American who has been brain washed by their gov. Just like our drugs are dangerous for your bodies, interestingly not for ours yet you want our flu vaccine. Oh ya not to mention the trade war, you want the lumber direct to USA, you want our water, oil and gas, but are going to court for being illegal about it all…..don’t even open the doors bashing our system as yours is so horrible … Your double standards slay me. Your wheat board doesn’t influence your gov. ???? your drug companies don’t influence your gov??? C’mon…. at least we are talking about it and not burying our head in Halliburton or other issues. Tsk tsk for being so naive and letting it show. Cycle of brain washing is complete when you speak so uneducated about a program you know so little about.

I have a tourism business and hear sad horrible stories by the hundreds from Americans who have lost lots due to a health issue and envy our system. Before you bash…get your facts….and hope like hell you never get an illness that costs you lots and you end up living in the street as your gov didn’t have the intelligence to develop a health care system that works for all no matter what your income level or status in life is.

Many of us have made a ton of money off scared Americans coming over the border for a flu shot and to buy drugs as they cant pay on their pension or salary what your country charges them. They think we are fortunate to have our health care system and many are trying to move here, especially now with your continued leadership which focuses on war so doesn’t need to focus on your health needs, unemployment needs and all the problems at home. They gave 2000 young peoples live’s up so to avoid issues like health care, mind you most those lives belong to families with no money and are not children of your congressman, so I wouldn’t go bashing another country’s health care system until you know the facts and your own plate is squeaky clean.


Ya Canada. Tommy Douglas is the leader in The Greatest Canadian...why... not for wars he fought....nope...he instituted a national health care system that has lasted for five decades and enables all people the best care there is no matter what your ability to have money is.
Thank goodness……..when my mom was dying she got same treatment that Pres Bush would have got, but she didnt have money or status.

As someone with a sister who is a nurse and brother-in-law a doctor, I am not overly impressed with the Canadian medical system. My sister says she wouldn't want to spend anytime in a Canadian hospital as a patient. I waited 9 months to get a "free" visit with a specialist - that was a long 9 months. A friend of mine got an MSI scan in Florida as a walk-in for $500. Try that in Canada. I have no drug plan - so it is no different here for me than living in the US, except a few of the generic drugs are cheaper. These cheaper drugs were usually developed in the US, by US citizens paying more. Canadians are getting the benefit of this for free and think they have a right to gloat about it. Those in Canada covered by a drug program often find many of the newer, better drugs are not covered by their drug plan. In my mind, this isn't good healthcare - just mediocre - you get what you pay for.