And very, very difficult during the winter. We presume that plants fruit all year, probably because fruits show up in our stores all year. Plants flower, fruit and then go dormant. They can't afford to fruit all year. Too much energy spent for too little chance for their seeds to sprout.

What DID humans do for the nine months out of the year for two and a half million years? Starve? And with no serious source of protein all year round?

I can not. I am not competent to answer such a question. I am a programmer. I was just citing Dr. Schnitzer. But I think that he explained that out digestive section is that of frugivore. So is our dentition and salivia. The saliva of man and meat eaters like dogs is very different. Our saliva is to gigest carbonhydrates. A dog doesn't chew. It just gulps down chunks of meat.

We are walking upright so we can reach fruits and stuff. If we were meat eaters we would be walking on all fours. The speer heads that were found were used to protect families from wild animals. Woud you walk though Alaska without a rifle ?

Also man needed furs of animals. That is why they killed them.

Well what did all other animals do when the the earth was covered with snow. What did deer do? They didn't go hunting and survived.

BTW I am not arguing just trying to find the truth. If we ARE meat eaters I will eat meat like crazy. But I have second thoughts. Why do heavy meat eather get abdominal cancer much more often that vegetarians ?

One more thing. Even if we were meat eaters 10000 years ago. Those animals don't exist anymore. That is the same argumentation with which you are trying to convince me that sweet fruits are not natural. Why should we eat cows. There were no cows 10000 years ago. Or chicken ...

Healthman, you said this in post #4;


And this in post #18:


You seem to be contradicting yourself. If even scientists can only guess, then why are you so sure of what you said in post 18?

I have a degree in biology. We are omnivores. Plain and simple. This isn't a "guess" by scientists, but documented fact. Check any high school biology text, or if you don't trust those, feel free to check journals like "Nature", "The European Journal of Human Genetics", or "Heredity". Those are all peer-reviewed scientific journals.

Oh, and snakes are meat eaters. They don't walk on all fours. Neither do fish, and most of them are carnivores. So that argument doesn't quite work.

Joan the Omnivore

Actually not all primitive cultures had bows and arrows. Some hunted by driving the animals off cliffs, using traps or other means that were effective for thier area. As for the time man was a hunter scavanger if you make a time line the hunter scavanger stage would fill up almost 97% or more of our history. Agraculture, domestication of animals, diary and so forth are extreamly recent human advancements on the grand scale of things.

I don't know if you count sea food as a meat, but there is high evidence early man in regions near water had fish and sea food diets. Many had great teeth due to the lack of refined sugars and the calcium from shell fishes.

Why would we bother. Chimpanzees and gorillas can 'reach fruits and stuff' and they still walk on all fours.

They dug with their hooves and unearthed things like reindeer moss which we are completely unable to digest - so we ate the deer instead.

This is not true. The highest incidences of stomach cancer are amongst the vegetarian populations of India.


There were cows 10000 years ago they were called aurochs (Bos taurus primigenius) the wild ancestor of our wild cow. We hunted, killed and ate them.

No one really cares if you eat meat or not - the choice is up to you. The only reason I don't eat sweet fruit is because I'm on a weight reduction regieme and if I ate it I wouldn't lose weight. People who have normal carbohydrate metabolisms and are not overweight should eat all types of fruit and vegetables.

Someone might like to read this if they have an afternoon to spare!
http://www.thincs.org/discuss.cavemen.htm

This is the best site I've come across on this issue so far: -

www.beyondveg.com

The only person who can decide if you are a meat-eater or not is YOU! The gorgeous thing about the human mechanism is that we have brains, free will, and the ability to think rationally.

What difference does it make what the first humans ate? Just because they did it doesn't make it the optimal situation. They were doing whatever they could do to stay alive, without the benefit of modern industry, agriculture, or science. And on that note, they didn't stay alive nearly as long as we do. So I'd hardly model my life after a caveman's.

KK

Why does the original post set off my PETA freak alarm??

My theory is it probably has to do with processed meats. Nitrites which cure the processed meats that americans eat daily have a known association with stomach cancers. My own grandfather who ate bacon every morning died of stomach cancer.

There is also the potential that the synthetic hormones we put in our animals might cause some problems. However, I think most of the cancer stuff is linked to the curing/seasoning/treatment of processed meat.
Besides, it's not as if veggies aren't processed. We put toxic pesticides all over crops, grow them in nutrient barren soils, etc. Vegetarians eat a ton of processed food too like grains, soy, etc. French fries are vegan.

I look at it this way. No matter what you do there is a risk. All you can do is lower that risk. I fully believe that eating a diet which is as high as possible in unprocessed food is the way to go. It's not a meat eater vs vegetarian thing, it's a fastfood hamburger and/or deep fried french fries vs steaks and/or baked potatoes thing. I don't think eating meat is a danger to anyones health. Even if there are toxic substances in animal products there are numerous beneficial ones that are hard if not impossible to get from vegetation. Likewise, even if there are toxic substances in some vegetation (sugar for one) it doesn't mean it's a good idea to abstain from it because vegetation has a lot of healthy properties. A balanced diet high in unprocessed food is the way to go. Animal products are part of a balanced diet. Do what you want for moral reasons, but you can't tell me that a diet that excludes animal products is balanced or healthy.

If you won't accept the indisputable fact that our ancestors were hunters and lived on a diet VERY high in animal flesh/products, you are simply so deep in denial that it makes this discussion pointless. Believe whatever you want. Believe t prehistoric man lived in the garden of eden and ate fruit off the vine and would never ever break the placid tranquility by hunting naimals. Have a blast.

Yes, and despite the fact that man's meat consumption is credited with his developing a larger brain and all those thought processes that go with it, we do all have the ability to choose for ourselves how we will eat.



This is because dogs (and the wolves from which they are descended) are strictly carnivores. They don't need enzymes with which to digest that which they do not eat. Humans, OTOH, are omnivores (meaning we eat both meat and vegetation, not that we eat everything in sight, although that could apply to some humans as well ). If you are going to compare, then compare like with like (omnivore with omnivore). Not omnivore with strictly carnivore or stictly vegetarian. The argument seems to be running that we are either strictly carnivore or herbivore while ignoring the obvious that we are actually both (omnivore).



I'm assuming that you mean what did herbivorous animals do. Some animals did hunt (wolves, big cats, etc...) as well as scavange the animals who died of starvation which brings me to the answer to your question; they starved in great numbers if they could not uncover enough vegetation to survive on. This happens during the winter months now when animal populations (such as deer) are too large for their environment to support their need for food during the winter months. Some herds/species went extinct during prolonged winter conditions such as ice ages if they did not or were not capable of migrating to warmer climates were food was more readily available.



If you are referring to the study that I think you are, they did not differentiate between unprocessed meats (beef, chicken, pork with nothing else added) and highly processed meats such as lunch meats, bacon and hot dogs that are often treated with nitrites (a known carcinogen) and sugar.



I believe part of this was already addressed (the saliva issue), but I really think you need to take another look at whose digestive system (particulary the intestines) humans most closely resemble. The answer to that is our intestines more closely resemble those of the carnivore than the herbivore.