Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
Very thought provoking post.
In my view, overeating is a naturally occurring phenomenon not only to humans, but just about every other species as well.
I’d imagine that just about every animal overeats if given the means and opportunity. In that sense, it strikes me that our propensity to overeat is very normal, while eating in moderation would be abnormal.
|
I agree but I think even when animals over eat, they can regulate their weight in the long runa ssuming no metabolic disease exists.
For example, there is this naturally thin girl I know, I think we *all* know her... if she eats a giant bowl of pasta, a pizza, soda, etc for dinner, she won't gain weight. Why? She has a very high resistance to metabolic disease. That is to say, no matter what or how much she eats, her body still can use energy well. Therefore, over a long term continuum of time, her body will decrease appetite and increase lipolysis as appropriate to conserve a relatively normal weight range. This does not happen for me and for those of us who become obese.
Metabolic diseases are caused by the combination of
drug-like, plentiful food and
the lifestyle stressors which makes us crave it.
I think eating in moderation is unnatural. It is popular, though, because it is the way we have learned to circumvent the obesity that would result from the combination of food availability and an environment that is a hotbed for metabolic diseases. Unfortunately most people are more like me and not like the thin girl - if we eat whatever we want with abandon we pile on fat like nobody's business and rapidly disintegrate in health.
Quote:
I don’t necessarily agree that the rigors and demands of modern society are the cause of obesity. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to assert that the abundance of available foods of every kind made possible by modernity highly increases the possibility that an individual over indulges.
|
I don't think it is causing obesity as a phenomena, but, I think it is the reason it is an epidemic. For it to be so *common* today means things are triggering it. It can't just be food availability. For example, you say the rich had obesity - but did the rich look like america? No, most were relatively thin and healthy, although, of course there were a few who were obese because obesity can only exist when food is plentiful (and those were probably just supersensitive to obesity, and, would be even fatter today). Food has not been *scarce* for a period of time well before the obesity epidemic.
This implies to me it is more than food availability that is causing this epidemic of obesity. It is also more than carbs, since people ate plenty of those in the context of plentiful food diets, without an obesity epidemic.
I do think that the combination of food,
plus stressful unnatural lifestyles that is really doing it.
I don't see the obesity epidemic correlating with lack of severe poverty (food availability enough to facilitate over eating). What I do see obesity correlating with is the disintegration of our societies, our families, and increasing consumerism with simultaneously decreasing job & wealth creating opportunities.
I also see the demand for substance foods and take out foods increase too, along with the stress.
This is a casual observation of course, I've no facts to support it... but it just seems to me when we REALLY started getting fat is when life started getting less natural and by extension more stressful.
Catalysts (stress, food, individual sensitivities to metabolic disease) -> metabolic state -> long term weight result
Some of us will remain thin even when stressed to the limit and eating an entire order of pasta from olive garden nightly. We will avoid metabolic disease and obesity.
Others become obese at the drop of a hat.
Most of us are in between. It follows, then, that most of us will become increasingly less healthy (which has heaviness as a symptom) the more we expose ourselves to these catalysts such as stress, food (quantity/quality).
Quote:
I’ve found that many “successful” people (meaning those who work long hours and exercise regularly) simply don’t have the time to overeat.
|
I am not saying obesity is a disease of the successful. I'm not saying striving for success causes unhappiness, stress, and obesity. Obviously that's not true - it's a disease of the poor and middle class mostly. But this isn't about
success, it is about
stress and fulfillment and that's not an absolute relationship. To explain this paradox of why those who are busiest and most successful are often thin: it might be that those who are successful simply can handle stress
better and thrive on it, whereas those of us who are more "normal" wilt. They can multitask better and are highly stress resistant.
Also, let's not forget the relationship between stress and food abuse is likewise not absolute.
The existence of stress does not necessarily mean that food abuse will be the choice way to deal with it. We all choose to relieve stress in different ways. In the lower classes it is more acceptable to use food for that purpose. The upper classes which are more image conscious are less likely to abuse food for stress relief - after all using food for this purpose is so pedestrian and common. Ironically, the upper classes are more likely to become compulsive exercisers and dieters for stress relief (there's the anorexic stereotype of the white, overachieving perfect girl for one).
Either way, that successful, very busy people often avoid obesity doesn't invalidate the idea that our stressful lifestyle is contributing to obesity collectively. Most of middle class and lower class people who are struggling to pay for the things they own and want and just working themselves to death are obese.
Quote:
In my humble opinion, those with the highest propensity to overeat are usually those whose utility of satisfaction from eating foods supersedes their satisfaction from other pursuits. For these individuals, it would require extreme discipline to refrain from eating too much. The same can be said for those who covet material success. These individuals are obsessive compulsives driven to overwork—the only difference is that getting fat in the bank account has a very different result than putting on added girth around the waist.
|
Fredrick I have to disagree with you on a point here.
I disagree that over eating causes obesity. I think metabolic disease causes obesity, and over eating is but one of many catalysts for metabolic disease in susceptible people. As a person predisposed to obesity I am WELL aware of how my body is different. If "normal people" eat a big meal (over eat), their bodies compensate. They felt full, they burned more energy. They didn't pile on weight. My body did. The more I ate, the hungrier and less satisfied I felt, the lower my energy and more apathetic and lethargic i become. It is such an irony that in the context of carbs, eating LESS can improve my perception of satiety and increase how efficiently my body uses energy...but it's true.
I agree that discipline affects how fat you become, or how much weight you lose
when not optimally healthy.
There is probably a strong correlation between weight suppression (stifling the "symptom") and success. Both tend to imply high resistance to stress, or, a sophisticated way of channeling stress (creative thinking, or, natural ability, whatever... both help success). It also shows an ability to bare down and do what it takes (at whatever unpleasant cost) to achieve.
However, I don't think becoming obese is necessarily indicative of failings. I think suppressing obesity is indicative of exceptionally (in ability to tolerate stress, work ethic, dedication, whatever). It doesn't work in reverse, since, it is
common today to become obese due to such a high preponderance of catalysts that could cause obesity (extreme stress and food). As anyone can see, obesity is natural and common. Thinness is either unnatural or uncommon depending on who we are talking about.
Quote:
This certainly isn’t the politically correct answer, but as in just about everything in life, it really just comes down to discipline. It would be truly extraordinary that the interminable human spirit could withstand the great wars, build the great pyramids of Egypt, place a person on the moon, split the atom, and run the 4 minute mile—and, yet be utterly powerless to refrain from overeating.
With kindest regards,
Frederick
|
Thing is Frederick, I didn't do those things and neither did you, but a few exceptional humans did. Most people at the time were average and doing average things, just like today.
Obesity is NOT caused by a lack of willpower and discipline. Failure to suppress obesity ("diet") might be, but, it's ultimately not the source of the problem.
It is metabolic disease that causes obesity and weight gain. I know we can suppress weight - that's not what I'm talking about.
What's causing the disease? Why is there a need to suppress weight to begin with?
Like I said earlier, it can't be food, and it can't be willpower deficiencies, because there has been plenty of food and plenty of people over eating AND staying thin over the long term of time, too.