Anyone following this thread, check out this website http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

It lists a lot of healthy foods, and contains information about how they help prevent disease, all referenced too. Just because you might be able to live without vegetables does not mean you will gain optimal health by doing so. In some parts of the world where vegetable intake is high, they have significantly less disease and live much longer free of disease. Meat consumption is generally really low in these places also.

Of course, you're right. No one would suggest veggies per se (aside from corn, I suppose) are the sort of empty calories that a piece of cake would be.

Let me pose this another way. Assume that today you've eaten all of your necessary nutrients--all of them. Also, let's assume you're about 500 calories or 50 carbs (if you follow calorie counting, carb, or both) short of your daily food intake. Now, with this remaining 500 cals or 50 carbs, and given that you've eaten all of your necessary nutrients, what would you treat yourself to at this point?

A piece of chocolate, especially the dark ones? A piece of decadent cake? Maybe, a nice cup of ice cream with apple pie? Or, a big plate of spinach, mixed with dry carrots, sprinkle with garlic, topped with asparagus chunks?

Come on, level with me. What would you opt for under those circumstances?

There's not much out there, but there's a ton of articles that will tell you why low-fat is so good for you, and you'll lose weight if you eat pasta instead of meat.

Which is why I put so little faith in "articles".

You can lose weight if you eat pasta...

I agree articles are biased etc, but I keep hearing that veggies really aren't necessary and if there are studies/articles/links on this, I'd like to read them. Didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, I'd just like to see things from the other side and am not sure where to look.

Is there a nutrient unique to plant foods only?

I noticed early on that switching to this way of eating (very low carb) that I was making a point of getting my veggies in my diet somewhere during the day but no longer cared to eat them. So I decided to stop eating them. I feel great. Losing weight steadily. Different things work for different people. Very low carb works for me and though I used to LOVE veggies, now I could care less.

Good question. How are you doing without veggies? Read alot of your posts on TheBear thread.

TheBear wasnt exactly a good role model of how to achieve good health.

Phytonutrients, which are now being found to be the most important factor in why eating vegetables prevent disease by various mechanisms. It isn't just all about how they elimate free radicals. But how they interact and alter gene expression in a benificial way to enhance antioxidant enzymes, enhance cell defense, prevent cancers, heart disease, osteoporosis and so on... and even extend life span in the case of resveratrol which is found in grapes, peanuts and a few others (more concentrated in red wine). They also enhance phase II detoxifcation enzymes to remove carcinogens (cancer causing compounds). Immune function is also enhanced by phytonutrients.

Phytonutrients are also UNIQUE to plants as far as I am aware.

By avoiding vegetables and fruits you are missing out on some very protective nutrients.

I'm one of the lucky ones who wasn't burdened with all these food prejudices as a child. I prefer meat raw (have variations on beef or lamb tartar several times a week) or grilled lightly on the outside with the inside just barely warm. I love raw beef liver, raw egg yolks, and sashimi. I eat veggies occasionally, maybe twice a week, but I try to go easy on them becuase I need to keep my carbs very low.

Wyv

For me, I feel fine without veggies. I feel better now physically than I ever have at any other point in my life.

At this point, after all that I've read, I can say with strong conviction that my veggie eating days are over forever. Veggies are one source of food I can easily abstain from eating the rest of my life. I can do that without even trying.

[QUOTE=Whoa182]TheBear wasnt exactly a good role model of how to achieve good health.


Thankfully I do not need a "role model". That is what I love about this forum. An exchange of ideas and experiences. As I stated before, different things work for different people. Very Low carb happens to be my choice. I have never felt better.

This could very well be true. From all that I've read, it wouldn't come as a surprise that the phytochemicals found in certain plants are conducive eliminating those free radicals so deleterious to our health.

However, having said that, there is a time when one makes a choice based on price vs. reward. For me, even if these studies prove to completely true, accurate, and infallible, it means I could lose 5 years off my life? Or, run an infinitesimally higher risk of developing cancer? For some of us, veggies are so foul tasting, the attack on our palates enjoyment of food so horrific, that the price for the 5 years is no longer justified.

For a life without veggies, I’ll gladly accept living a shorter life, or even run a slightly higher risk of not having that added layer of protection.

To hedge my bets a bit, I’ll just drink red wine, dark chocolates, and remain physically active. You see, I’d rather run 2 hours a day, than have to quaff down another plate of those plant-foods that taste like recycled tar.

PS: I don't think the Bear was any better or worse than other role models, as you term it. In my view, there were many valuable insights brought from that thread due in no small part to both the Bear's knowledge and passion for his chosen eating philosophy. In the end, I think we're all better off--from a knowledge point of view--from the Bear's visit.

heh.
Why don't you show me some proof that vegetables aren't good for you ?
I think the burden of proof is on you.

I know I keep going on about okinawa (Sorry!) but they are a very good example of how to achieve good health (the elders). Since they are the longest lived in the world, lowest disease risk with 80% fewer heart disease, almost no prostate or breast cancer, colon cancer, and many other risks are very low. They also happen to consume high number of vegetables, I think it is over 10 a day. It shows that they are not deleterious to health. This is just one area in the world, there are many other examples such as seventh day adventists who lead a healthy life style and have the longest life expectancy in the u.s because of their high consumption of good foods. They also avoid meat, smoking and alcohol, so there are other factors of course.



Well regardless of what you eat, life expectancy wont change that much, but what will change is how long you spend with chronic disease. But maybe you will be fine... I hope you do get a series of health biomarkers monitored every so often... to learn how your diet is affecting your body, whether it be positive or negative.



Good to hear!



I never started eating a lot vegetables until I was around 19. When I did start they didn't taste too good. Brussel sprouts must have been the worst veggie! but now it's actually my fave

But I guess we are all different, I mean I hate the smell and taste of red meat... I've also rarely eaten it =/ But I'm also sure that if I ate it for a week I'd start to enjoy... So we can make ourselves like almost anything...

except peanuts! evil!