Ellerbe Springs Marathon....
Well that was one tough marathon! It was FAR HILLIER than I had thought. Hill after hill after hill. Big hills too. It got hot and humid here as well, making matters worse. 130 runners, miles running alone.
I wasn't prepared for the amount of elevation change. I struggled to a 4:25

I did take in extra carbs the last three days. I don't think eating a moderate carb diet had much effect on my performance. I just didn't know what I was getting into today.

I got a lot of cramps today. I read somewhere to take some sort of supplement as it may be a deficiency. Anyone know what to take for that. Someone mentioned salt tablets, I think

kghamilton-Thanks for the heads up on the grapefruit juice. I don't want to lose any more weight, but at the same time I don't want to gain because of the extra carbs. So far, I've found a good balance with the extra vege's, crackers, and the GF juice. We'll see how things go as I get into the longer runs later on.

Also, congratulations of your marathon finish!! Sounds like those hills were a killer, but you managed to work through them! Great job!

Kgh, Congratulations on your Ellerbe finish! You had all three H's (Hills, Heat and Humidity) which almost always adds up to Hurt. You did a great job.

Sounds like you are thinking your electrolyte replacement wasn't sufficient, resulting in cramps. If you don't want to drink a sports drink (like Gatoryuck or Ultimuck) you might want to try an electrolyte replacement capsule like Succeed! (the ! is part of the name). From the advertersing:

"SUCCEED! BUFFER/ELECTROLYTE CAPS provide electrolytes that are commonly found in blood plasma, in the proper proportions for hours of exercise. When taken with sufficient water, they help the body maintain a good hydration status, which allows performance at a high level. They also contain a chemical buffering system that neutralizes the acids formed during heavy exercise. Neutralization of excess acid will help performance and reduce the nausea associated with exercise in the heat. Maintenance of proper electrolyte levels will reduce swelling of hands and feet after many hours of exercise, and that will reduce "hot spots" and blisters on the feet.

per capsule (100 Capsules/bottle): sodium 344 mg potassium 21 mg

Ingredients: sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, sodium citrate, sodium phosphate, potassium chloride"

I have used them in my last two marathons, but both were cold (Boise --sub freezing in November -- and Seattle -- just Seattle in December) and not really a fair test. I also used them in Portland, which was a bit warmer, but not really hot/humid and actually gained a pound during the race. No cramps or blisters in any of these efforts, though. Ultrarunners use Succeed! quite a bit. The're cheap and basically pretty simple, just salt and potassium buffered so as not to make you upchuck. You might give 'em a try.

Can be ordered online from Ultrafit Endurance . I have no financial or other interest in any of this stuff.

Thanks for the tip on the Succeed, I'll look into them. My last 2 marathons, I've had cramps earlier than expected (well before 18-20 miles). They were both hilly, so I know that is part of it. The sodium/potassium may be another issue.

Kittypaws, the grapefruit has worked very well for me. The more I train, I think that an ultra low carb diet is not conducive to training. However, I think the typical high-carb diet that is normally recommended is way too high.

Its about 50/50 chance that I will run the inaugural Charlottesville VA Marathon on Easter weekend. Sure to be another hilly event.

Ken

Congrats on your finish, KG! Sounds like a grueling one.

I didn't get my long run in this weekend, due in part to helping a friend move, and in part to absolutely MISERABLE weather. I know, I'm being a wuss. I'll have to get it in this week instead.

Looks like the hills got ya. They can be a real killer and in a marathon they have to take their toll. Take good care of yourself post race. Continue with the stretching and drink plenty of water.

I see you have the next race in your sights, thats good but make sure you recover from this one properly.

I've got my next race picked out but it's just 5k. I am nearing the sub 200lb mark. At that point I will begin running daily 3-5 miles. Yes, I am still taking it easy for now but that will pay off when I build up to heavy training. My 5k is in May so I have time to drop more weight and work on the mileage. I will also do some speed work pre race. Nothing major, probably just some fartlik runs a couple times a week. I want to get my pace down to under 6:15.

I think I'll end up climbing the race distance ladder as I get into better shape. I will come up with some goal times to beat before moving up in the distance.

You're right about the rest. I probably won't run until thursday and I'm stretching.

I still don't think I have this whole diet thing figured out, so I will probably do some shorter races for the next few months. I'm happy with the weight loss; but not happy with the way my legs are responding. I'm going to continue with Sugarbusters; but i am not going to do anymore carb loading before long runs. I really don't think its helped. With the extra weight off, my times should be faster; but I was running faster in January. Anyway, I'm looking forward to running again and starting the weights back up.

Here is my thought on carbo loading. I do not have any data to back this up so it is just a theory.

I speculate that the act of carbo loading for a LC athlete will have a much different effect on the body than it would for someone who consumes higher levels of carbs.

We know what happens to the average LC eater when they "cheat" for a day or two. Their body takes those carbs and stores them. The body retains water and we see weight gain. I do not know all the chemical process going on but the body sees these carbs and switches gears.

Now look at your average marathon runner. He eats a high carb diet all the time. Therefore he is burning glucose for energy all the time. Shortly before a race he tries to deplete as much of the glucose stored in his body, and then "carbo-loads". It is only during this depletion that the average runner is close to or in ketosis. Then the carbs are literaly packed in to try and maximze the blood glucose levels. The process is done to empty and re-fill the body with the same fuel it burns all the time...carbs burned as glucose.

Now for us LC'runners our fuel is fat for the most part. My thought is the last minute switch to high carb intake my shock the system. The result may not be the desired one. We have been training the body to function on LC including all the mileage pre race. Then we choke it with carbs right at the race.

As I said this is justa theory and I do not have any scientific data or formula to back it up. Just my thoughts.

Personaly I am still technicaly LC and I would guess that I am below 30g every day. I have only been at it for about three months, and my running is getting better every day. I am not in my top physical shape so I do not know if a bad run is carb related or not ...yet. I plan on following this WOE and will stay LC pre-race for a while. I am also keeping the race distance low for a while, but I think if I can run a fast LC 5k without extra carbs I will be on the right track.

Ken I would support you shorter distance racing for a while. I think you will find that it is easier on the boday and you can race more often. I will be working my up in the race distance, you may want to try that too. It should be much easier to gauge results with thw shorter races. There will be less factors to skew your results.

Long winded I know but that's what's on my mind.

I would welcome any rebutal.

Shane

Shane, I agree with most of what you said and I think it applies to runs under 10 miles or so. Conventional "runner wisdom" is that fat burning requires some glycogen to succeed. The question is whether or not a LC diet will allow you enough glycogen to keep burning fat for a long distance run. The key, I think, is lots of experimental long training runs without carbo loading.

For what's its worth, I've followed the carreer of a guy named Yiannis Kouros (spelling?), the world's greatest living ultrarunner. He runs & wins races from 50 miles to six days. He is not very forthcoming regarding his training techniques, but my spies tell me that during a race he eats every 15 minutes and eats little carbo snacks (candy, fruit, etc.) and a tiny amount of protein (roast chicken). About 95% carbs during the race.

Shane you took the words right out of my mouth. From my running log, in early February, prior to reverting to LC, I ran a 1/2 marathon time trial at just over 8 minute miles. Even though I lost 14 pounds, I was unable to duplicate that training run. I want to pick up the book "Eat Fat, Get Thin" that was mentioned in another post about low carb and muscle inflammation.

I think eating LC and then carboloading may lead to some sluggishness. The end of the school year is very busy and I have several projects to finish in grad school, so a marathon in April is not practical anyway. There is a 5K on the 27th in my town and I will start with that. I'm going to try saome calcium potassium magnesium supplements as well, since they seem to be tied to muscle fatigue, soreness, cramps, etc. They're not very expensive so its worth a try. I had far more cramps in the race than I think I should have. I hope I can learn some good lessons from it.

I was averaging 60-90 grams of carbs per day and was losing weight quite successfully. I will return to that and not alter prior to races. I will maintain a 17-18 mile run every 2-3 weeks, so as not to lose my marathon level.
At this time of year, there are many races so I hope to get in 2 5ks and a 10k before the end of June.

Huff, as for Yiannis, he is one of the greatest if not the greatest ultra man of all time, holding a bunch of world records from 100 miles and up. I suspect he eats high carb all the time.

Sounds like a great plan. The shorter distances will give you some speed work which never hurts to have. Keeping the long runs will maintain your stamina. As I have said I do not have enough experiance yet to know how my body will react but the four mile race I did went well. I did slow down at mile three but I am not in great shape yet and I went out too fast. Both factors are likley to have caused the fatague rather than my diet.

I like 5k's. They tend to have good turn-out and they are over before you can do much damage!! As I said too they will help with your speed.

Good luck and remember it's all good experience. As long as we keep track of what we are doing we should be able to tweek things till they work well.

It is kind of fun trying to figure this out....I feel like a pioneer.

Anyway I was at Barnes and Noble after class and I started reading a book on supplements. From what I eat, I should have no problem with potassium. I does say that low magnesium can cause muscle cramps and most people don't get enough. So I'm adding calcium and magnesium for now.


As for 5ks, they are the toughest distance. I've only run a few of the, so I'm looking forward to it.

Oh, I cannot express my happiness to find this forum:-)
I am in the middle (much more at the start) of my training to my first (half)Marathon. Started to run this January - earlier I prefered swimming/walking/rowing.
To start to run at 46 is not so easy, with my past ankle injury much less easier. My main problem: my heart/lung much more stronger than my legs - means I always run one mile more than I should. Fortunatelly no real injury so far. Now every week I have 3x6k, 1xhill, 1x long run. (Sometimes +1 really long run.)
Regarding the carb issue. My son is an enthusiastic Marathon/Ironman/triathlon racer. He is a very good inspiration, and very helpful trainer, but his idea about the "perfect" meal definetely different from mine. His pre-race, pre-training meals contain more carb than I eat in a month :-)
So far I did not have any problem to run 8-12k without any carb load. Usually I prefer to run with empty stomach. I looking forward to read/hear advices, shared experiences, how to change my diet with the increase of my miles.

Welcome, Galadriell (Lady of the Golden Wood)!

I started running at 49. If you keep it up you'll find that your lungs and heart will eventually catch up with your legs. At a certain point your aerobic capacity levels off and your main limiting factor is getting energy to the legs.

When and where is your half marathon? I will be running one on Sunday.

Good luck in the half-marathon Huff.

I started running again after last week's marathon. I did an easy 7 miler this morning. I can tell that my legs are still recovering; but overall I felt pretty good.