Hey NHSB!💃🏽💃🏽💃🏽
I didn’t expect to see anyone here so I kinda stopped posting. It’s 00:30 in the morning and I’m exhausted. I’m doing good! Starting a 5 day fast tomorrow so wish me luck, I will probably need it. I’ll check in tomorrow morning and catch up with the post.
Nemaste xxx

Hi Nemaste!

Glad to see you posting again. (And back safely from Northern Italy! So sad to see the viral outbreak there...well, anywhere.)

Hope the fast went well.

I have been playing around with Ted Naiman’s ideas around Protein:Energy (P:E) ratios along with intermittent fasting. Some days look like Stillman’s for me (very high P:E), while some days have at bit of veggies and/or a bit of fat (good P:E, but not quite Stillman’s). It has been kind of interesting. Not the quickest results, but I don’t feel like a failure if I don’t manage to string together multiple Stillman’s days. Keto (lower P:E) is great for maintenance for me, but not fat loss. Stillman’s is great for fat loss if I can do it. This P:E focus gives me something in between to focus on.

Hey there, not sure if you’ll see this. I fell ill with Covid not long after my last post. I got back from Italy, then went to France for a few days and when I returned home, I had what doctors first thought was a chest infection but I ended up being hospitalised with Coronavirus. I was only in the hospital for 5 days but It was a very strange time. I still fill a bit off at times but I have made a full recovery.

The virus hasn’t helped my chronic fatigue situation that’s for sure. I’m having vitamin B12 injections to see if any of my symptoms improve. I normally only sleep for 5 hours but the day of my first injection, I slept for 9 hours and 53 minutes- I couldn’t believe it! I’m sure it was the B12.

Anyway, I hope you are well and keeping safe. I’m back on the Stillman bandwagon today so will be posting again. I had maintained a 14lb loss up until 4 weeks ago but have piled on 10lbs after a course of steroids. I can’t believe how quickly it came on! Ugh!

So it’s day 1 again!
I’ve a large piece of Sockeye salmon in the fridge that needs cooking so that’s definitely on the menu today... I don’t think the good doctor allowed salmon as it’s a fatty fish but sockeye is far leaner than pink salmon so I’m going with it. Plus, it’s healthy so I will be keeping it on the menu a couple of times a week. It’s 10:04 here in the U.K. and I’m not hungry as yet, so I’m going with it... perhaps I’ll hold out until lunchtime, if not I’ll be having turkey rashers in a Lo-dough wrap. The wrap is around 30 cals and has 2 carbs - not strictly Stillman but it fits when considering macros.

Day 2
Ended up keeping it high fat like I normally do at the start of Stillman's. I wasn’t hungry in the morning but made up for it in the afternoon. Will probably be high fat until tomorrow and then scale down - it’s always easier To follow QWL when glycogen is used up and hunger is less.

Hi Nemaste!

Thank you for your message. My mail provider has been aggressively categorizing mail as spam so I didn’t get the notification from the forum right away. Glad I checked my spam folder!

I am very glad to hear you are ok...I do hope any lingering covid effects fully resolve. How interesting that B12 helped you sleep! Sleep is good. I don’t know much about steroids, but if the gain they cause is mostly water, Stills should remedy that quickly.

I started strength training in May and continued with my mostly-protein-plus-veggie approach (the Naiman P:E ratio stuff I wrote about above). I did well during the Summer, then decided I needed a break in September. I relaxed my food choices a bit and started intermittent fasting again. I kept up the strength training and fasted 18 to 22 hours most days. I maintained my Spring/Summer losses with the fasting (I guesstimate 10 pounds of fat loss with some muscle gain). I think I have relaxed long enough and can buckle down to shed another 10 pounds of fat. I am trying to push a bit harder, either fasting alternating days (36 to 42 hours) with 2 low carb higher fat meals on workout days or using Stillman days alternated with 2 low carb but higher fat meals on workout days.

Are you still doing Stillman’s? I would be up for a 10 day no cheats challenge if a partner would help!

Ugh! I’m so sorry. I was expecting an email notification when you replied but I didn’t get one so I assumed you hadn’t replied.

I did a few days of Stills but couldn’t get into it. I was failing miserably so didn’t post. I got really down on myself actually - I was fed up, tired and embarrassed of the fact I haven’t been able to succeed at losing weight. I’ve been attempting to do it for what feels like an eternity.

All the broken promises I make to myself, chip away at my self esteem. The diet game can be such a viscous cycle, I honestly think it’s a madness! I was slim most of my life and I will never feel comfortable being overweight so I do need a plan but I have to break this cycle.

Anyway, I did a lot of thinking and decided that the best way forward was for me to follow a Mediterranean style diet. I will try to keep it South Beach phase 1 but if on any day I fancy a slice of low carb bread or some wholegrain rice then I’ll have some. (I can also have this mung bean tagliatelle that I discovered - It’s only 4 carbs a serving and is a game changer!). Eating this way gives me so much more freedom and will hopefully enable me to break the cycle I’ve been twirling around in for so very long. If on any day, I feel like having a Stillman day, I’ll do it but if I give up on day 3 due to having some Mung bean pasta or some broccoli I won’t feel like I failed because it’s all part of the plan and it also won’t stop me losing weight. I’m 2 days in and down 1.4 pounds and so far it’s not even felt like a diet and has been without much effort. So I guess I’m following South Beach phase 1 and 2 as well as Stillman.

How are you doing? Are you still on Stillman? There’s no denying it’s amazing for weight loss. I still plan to stick around here as I will be doing some Stillman days like I said. I will check in more frequently now that I know you are around and apologise again for not replying sooner. I hope you are well.

Hi Nemaste!

Your plan makes a lot of sense. I think mixing Stillman days with days of slightly more relaxed, but still effective fat-loss approaches works better for me too - it is easier to stay on track for the many weeks and months it takes to a shed a satisfying amount of fat.

I just started experimenting with slightly longer intermittent fasting windows. I am alternating one day of 17 hours fasted with one day of 27 hours fasted (basically lunch on Monday, dinner on Tuesday, lunch on Wednesday, etc.). I am currently eating meat and veggies (if I want them) for my meals. If my hunger subsides more, I will scale back on the fat and veggies some days to reach Stillman macros.

I would be happy to share notes if having a buddy would be useful to you! I guess this thread is usable since no one else is doing Stillman’s (and we both try to incorporate some Stillman’s principles in our experiments).

Let me know if that would be of interest!

I just reread the above as you referred to it in your last post. I do apologise, It looks like I didn’t comment on any of what you wrote. How rude of me! It was probably something to do with the fact I didn’t post for six months after you wrote it. It’s interesting because a lot of what you say here mirrors what I just said in my last post - especially the part about using different diets to avoid feeling like a failure. Our plans are similar too!

I’m not sure I’m familiar with P:E? You might of mentioned it prior to yesterday but my brain is like a sieve these days I’ll look up Ted Naimen - possibly for the second time.

Yes, it would be a great idea to share notes and here seems like the perfect place as like you say, it’s quiet. I’m feeling really positive about things moving forward. I need to update my stats and remove my old signature so that it’s up to date. I’m just about to do a search on Ted Naimen and once again like I said in my last post, apologies for not responding to the content of your March post.

Hope you’re having a good day

Hi there!

Re: Naiman —

I did not read Naiman’s book, but found him describing his ideas on numerous podcasts. His websites (burnfatnotsugar dot com plus another one where he sells his book) describe his ideas, but I found his explanations on podcasts easier to understand. There is also a thread on this forum started by a woman who is his patient in real life. I think her username might be keytones. That thread was helpful to me. I think I heard him twice on the lowcarbmd podcast. Possibly on the dietdoctor podcast too.

My, perhaps oversimplified, understanding of Naiman’s main point is that successful fat loss diets emphasize animal protein foods to minimize hunger and deliver micronutrients, while limiting digestible carbs and fats to one degree or another. How low you need to go on digestible carbs and fats is individual. His views on fiber are a bit unclear to me...fine if you want them, but maybe fine if you don't? He doesn’t seem super excited about veggies though they are fine if they help you.

He claims protein is almost never used as fuel for energy, so you don’t need to limit it arbitrarily - you can eat it to hunger. He believes the focus should be on placing some limit foods that supply fuel...basically digestible carbs and fats. The more you emphasize protein over fuel (his protein:energy ratio), the quicker your body can burn its stored fuel, but sustainability is at least as important as speed. I think at 63, I finally get this point! lol...guess I am a slow learner.

So Stillman would be an example of a very high protein:energy ratio in his scheme. Effective but perhaps more restrictive than most individuals need on a daily basis. South Beach would be aligned with his scheme too - slightly lower protein:energy ratio but still good. One thing that helps me with this notion is shifting from being “on or off” some diet to focusing on doing my best each day to emphasize protein over fuel - which does sound a lot like the place you have come to!

Naiman also emphasizes that bodyfat leaves your body through mitochondria, so strength training is a useful (perhaps even necessary) part of the picture. This might be the big message I needed to hear...I have been dieting for over 50 years! Started Stillman’s when I was 12. I tend to have a decent protein:energy ratio as a habit, but I have not exercised regularly. I have tended to exercise in spurts. I hate cardio! Happily, he suggests strength training is more important. I have always enjoyed calisthenics or even weight lifting more than jogging. Now I focus on getting in 3 strength training sessions every week.

My current experiment -

I am using intermittent fasting with the protein:energy+exercise scheme because I find it helps suppress my appetite and I am hoping it helps with health and longevity. I am trying to fast 27 hours today (finished lunch at 2pm yesterday, planning first meal at 5pm today). Dinner will be some kind of animal protein and probably a salad because I like them. I use lowfat meats a few times per week, but I think tonight might be crispy bacon with eggs! The bacon will be cooked long enough that a lot of the fat is drained away. I just found a nearby farm that sells really yummy bacon. Yesterday I had lamb shanks. I will pay more attention to lowering fat if I find I need to.

Hope your day is going well!

Oh. My stats are not up to date either! I’m on the fence about updating them though. I will have to think about whether that would benefit or depress me!

Thank you for your detailed review of Ted Naimen’s plan. The protein:energy ratio idea behind it definitely fits in with what I’m trying to do. It’s great having a new way of looking at things - I hadn’t really thought about it in this way before. The easier it is to understand, the easier it is to follow.

I recently bought some strength training equipment. I have degenerated disc disease so weight training is something I absolutely have to get into. I use to exercise a fair bit until I became unwell with chronic fatigue. Like you, I did it in fits and starts but I was always on my feet and so always very active. Also like you, I don’t care much for cardio but its essential I get some in. I have a step box somewhere... It’s great for me as it’s low impact and I would only need to step for a few short periods a week to see good results.

I plan to lift weights most days. That might sound excessive but I’m quite weak so the idea is to do a little each day. I understand the need to rest in order for muscles to heal so I’ll focus on different muscle groups each day which is what I think a lot of weight trainers do. It will be difficult what with my energy issues but I really need to take action because I feel like I’m falling apart and I don’t want to end up like Humpty Dumpty!

Have you heard of Joan Macdonald? She’s 74 now but started weight training at 70! She had a lot of health problems and was overweight. One day her daughter (who I believe is a training coach of some sort) sat her down and basically gave it to her straight - either you make changes or you’ll end up dying from bad health. Joan managed to completely turn her life around and all of her health problems went away. She lost 45lbs in 6 months and went on to lose a further 20. She has quashed the common belief that you can’t build muscle in later years and she did all this without the use of HRT. I find her story so inspiring. I turned 50 this year so menopause is looming and I need to act fast. Actually, my consultant told me today that I need to consider a hysterectomy but that’s another story.

Your experiment sounds interesting, I’m sure it will yield great results! I firmly believe fasting is beneficial to health and as you know I’ve done a little in the past and will do it again at some point down the road. How are you finding the 27 stretch? I didn’t eat until after 2pm or 3pm Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. It wasn’t planned, it was just that I had places to be and when I’m busy I forget about food.

The bacon sounds so good! I absolutely love lamb shanks, especially in a mint sauce... red current sauce is nice too - to be honest I love lamb so much, it would taste great served any way. I eat a lot of salads too and I absolutely love vegetables. I had meatballs today which I oven cooked then squeezed with some kitchen roll so that most of the fat was removed. I had them on bistro salad (I love beetroot) with chopped tomato, red onion, green olives, asparagus and a little light feta. It was handsome! I had ham and tomatoes for breakfast and two small handfuls of almonds as a snack. It’s Just after 8 and I’m not quite sure I’ll eat a proper dinner tonight - I might just have a couple of boiled eggs with spinach.

With regards to updating my weight, I feel exactly the same as you. When I came back here recently I had to change my stats to record 10lbs I gained from steroids. I so didn’t want to do it but I believe the acceptance that comes with doing so helps us move forward mentally. If you decide to update, great but if not, no problem as you know. You’ve gotta do what’s best for you (all this from her that still hasn’t corrected her stats ). I’m going to update in the morning, I’m being lazy this evening. I was down another .4 today and I’m hoping for another loss tomorrow. My stats won’t be too far off what they are showing because as I mentioned above, I updated them recently.

I think I said earlier that I have an awful memory so if I repeat myself from time to time or forget something you told me or asked me, I apologise in advance. I barely remember who I’ve told what these days.

Hope you are having a good day and enjoy your bacon!

I like your idea of doing a bit of exercise most days. Whatever it takes to make it sustainable! It is kind of amazing how quickly we regain strength and energy with regular exercise. I just read Joan MacDonald’s story. She is inspiring! I told myself this time I was establishing a minimal exercise pattern for life. So far, so good. I just added in a couple of mobility workouts this past week (I have some old-lady hip flexor issues I hope to nip in the bud).

I am sorry to hear about the degenerative disks on top of CFS. You have a great attitude facing these challenges. For what it is worth, I went through surgically-induced menopause at 50...it wasn’t too bad in my case. I hope you are able to avoid the surgery, but life after menopause (and that surgery) can feel pretty normal.

My 27 hour fast went very well. I think I am going to like this pattern. I need to give it a week or two to see if it actually yields fat loss for me. The crispy bacon was yummy. Tonight my fast will be at least 17 hours, but will end when my husband decides it is time for lunch. I am hoping for 19 hours. Weekends are more socially complex for dieting...

Your meals always sound so creative, and it sounds like you are making good progress this week!

So glad you liked Joan, She has some videos on YouTube of her working out if you’re interested. You mentioning mobility exercises has me considering returning to physio. You have the right attitude - nip it in the bud before it becomes a bigger issue. Is it painful?

My daughter has just prepared us some food, she’s been here today helping me sort things out. I bought a new sofa and now need to sell my old ones. I’m trying to decide whether to stick with two sofas in the lounge or go for a sofa and armchairs... first world problems! I want to have it all ready for Xmas... not that anyone will be able to visit with the way things are!
Everything is going well here but it’s been a busy day for me! I’ll be exhausted tomorrow! You are doing so well with fasting!