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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Apr-15-11, 20:38
paleodude's Avatar
paleodude paleodude is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 94
 
Plan: Paleo Diet
Stats: 180/149/150 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Default Low-Carb Paleo Diet: A Neolithic Fantasy?

Quote:
Do you realize that Paleo and low-carb (LC) are not synonomous, and that there are no examples of LC in the Paleo literature among the population groups studied, even in the Eskimos?

After reading the above, one might start to assume that I don’t like the Paleo diet. This is not true at all. My go-to book for people making the jump to a healthier way of eating is Robb Wolf’s The Paleo Solution: The Original Human Diet*. I consider Robb Wolf a personal friend of mine and I truly appreciate him writing this book!

Making the foundation of a diet from animal proteins (the amount one needs is individual, of course), vegetables (all of them, starchy, sugary, and non-starchy), fruits, nuts, and good fats, is a no-brainer to me. Other unprocessed or “lightly processed” foods can or should be added as deemed necessary for the person in question.

I’ve given up the evolutionary side of the argument – it seems to get into the “faith” realm too often, hence folks referring to the “Paleo cult” and “Paleotards” – in favor of real-world results and the general idea of avoiding processed foods. My current conclusions may surprise people…that’s for a future article though.

Read the rest of the article here: Low-Carb Paleo Diet: A Neolithic Fantasy
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Apr-16-11, 01:25
Warren D Warren D is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 331
 
Plan: Fatty meat
Stats: 135/135/135 Male 166
BF:11%
Progress:
Location: Ibiza, Spain
Default

Quote:
Alaskan Eskimos, for example, had an estimated total daily energy intake of 12552 kJ (3000 kcal): ≈50% from fat, ≈30–35% from protein, and ≈15–20% from carbohydrates, largely glycogen from meat (7).
So in other words they were eating a lot of meat just like we always thought. What is this guy trying to prove?


Quote:
Give it up…or better, try to find a centenarian or professional athlete who does less than 15% of their daily Caloric intake on an average daily basis to justify your chosen approach to eating. Longevity or performance…LC facilitates neither goal.
What professional athletes need and what the ordinary man in the street needs are very often totally different. Professional athletes eat and train certain ways because they are professional athletes. Not because it's the healthiest way to live. How is the way a 20 year old linebacker trains and eats helpful to a 50 year old housewife? How many athletes are still professional in their thirties and beyond? Do they often reach 100 years old?
I really don't know why so many low carb and paleo discussions have to be about Eskimos and professional athletes. The are both fairly extreme lifestyles with only a little in common with how ordinary people live. I eat very low carb. I don't eat like an Eskimo and I'm not a pro athlete so neither lifestyle has anything to do with mine.
Quote:
For those of you who want to throw back the “there are NO essential carbs!!!” line, that’s fine. You go ahead and take the time to really ponder that when you are lying in bed, wide awake in the wee hours of the morning, a victim of reactive hypoglycemia due to excessively low “non-essential” carb intake.
I have experienced nights in the past where I couldn't sleep but since going low carb it got a lot easier for me to sleep. I really have no problem sleeping now. It always took me ages to get to sleep as a kid and my mum has often said that she used to worry about me because I took so long to get to sleep.
I eat very few carbs. Most are just from a few leafy greens (oh but maybe I've been saved that horror of reactive hypoglycemia by all the glycogen in meat? ).
I have found what works for me. I gave up following what some guy says in a book or an article because so many things don't work for everybody. I have never claimed that what works for me will work for everybody. Maybe some people are better suited to a higher carb intake than me but I am certain that some people are suited to eating just the way I do. The author said he had helped people by getting them to eat more carbs. Well maybe those people just suited a higher carb intake? It doesn't mean everyone else does. Many people eat a very high carb diet and thrive on it but there are plenty of people on this forum alone that high carbs just don't help. That's why I never recommend books, even low carb books. Experiment and find what works for you personally. Don't just latch onto some authors ideas because you like the sound of it.

Last edited by Warren D : Sat, Apr-16-11 at 07:07.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Apr-16-11, 08:02
Sue333 Sue333 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 924
 
Plan: Paleo/Primal
Stats: 226/181.5/150 Female 5'7"
BF:Why yes it is!
Progress: 59%
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Default

WTH???

Is this person on crack?

I've NEVER been kept awake by "reactive hypoglycemia due to excessively low "non essential" carb intake!" Again, I say "WTH???"

Just...what???

I've been paleo for two years now...only truly faithful in the last three months, admittedly....and I sleep better than EVER. I feel better than EVER. I LOOK better than EVER!

What a weirdo...
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Apr-16-11, 09:01
paleodude's Avatar
paleodude paleodude is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 94
 
Plan: Paleo Diet
Stats: 180/149/150 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Default

The glycogen from meat really has me bewildered? He argues against very low carb but then argues that meat basically has carbs.

I've had insomnia when first going low carb. But, I also had it when eating high carb. In fact on high carb I sometimes woke up at night gasping for breath because of acid reflex had gone so far up into my throat.

Many professional athletes and hard core amateurs die young. Brian Maxwell, the inventor of the Power Bar, died of a heart attack at age 51.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, May-15-11, 10:01
elpasopop's Avatar
elpasopop elpasopop is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: Primal Blueprint
Stats: 405/350/220 Male 6'0
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Atlanta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paleodude
The glycogen from meat really has me bewildered? He argues against very low carb but then argues that meat basically has carbs.

I've had insomnia when first going low carb. But, I also had it when eating high carb. In fact on high carb I sometimes woke up at night gasping for breath because of acid reflex had gone so far up into my throat.

Many professional athletes and hard core amateurs die young. Brian Maxwell, the inventor of the Power Bar, died of a heart attack at age 51.



Maxwell had a congenital heart condition. And kept running marathons against medical advice.

But true, lots of endurance athletes have early health problems. Like Lance Armstrong for example. Fact is, the level of exercise those types do aren't "normal" for humans. I don't think any of our ancestors biked 120 miles a day for a month, ever.

I saw a talk by Kenneth Cooper, author of the antioxidant revolution, who said Armstrong was a victim of free radicals. Not sure Cooper ever treated LA however.

I'm not an old wise sage, but I am a middle aged smarty pants. I think what is best, in ALL things, is moderation. You can bet that our ancestors didn't tend to overdo anything unless it was warfare or hunting in lean times.

Modern hunter-gatherer society studies show that there is a high level of downtime and resting in their groups. No marathons or 40 hour work weeks.

1) Turnbull, Colin. "Mbuti Womenhood," in Women the Gatherer, Francis Dahlberg, Ed.
2) Benedict, Ruth. "Patterns of Culture."
3) Zerzan, John. Future Primitive, in "Limited Wants, Unlimited Means". John M. Gowdy, ed.
4) Darwin, Charles. "The Decent of Man."
5) Richards, Cara B. "Matriarchy or mistake: The role of Iroquois women through time." Pg 36-45
6) Leacock, Elanor, and Jacqueline Goodman. "Montagnais marriage and the Jesuits in the 17th century." Western Canadian Journal of Anthropology.
7) Kaberry, Phyllis M. "Aboriginal woman in changing navajo society", pg. 143. American Anthropologist. 59:101-11
8) Weatherford, Jack. "Native Roots: How The Indians Enriched America". Pg 38-42.
9) Beyond "The Original Affluent Society."
10) Endicott, K. "Batek Negrito religion: the world view and rituals of a hunting and gathering peopel of peninsular Malaysia." pg. 21.
11) Sahlins, M. "Notes on the original affluency society," in Man the Hunter. Edited by R.B. Lee and I. DeVore, pp. 85-89.
12) Kaplan, D. “The Darker Side of the Original Affluent Society”, Journal of Anthropological Research 56(3) pp.301-324.
13) Marshall, Lorna. "Sharing, Talking, and Giving," pg 72, in Limited Wants, Unlimited Means. John M. Gowdy, Ed.
14) Lee, Richard B. "What Hunters Do For A Livings." pg 50-51, in Limited Wants, Unlimited Means. John M Gowdy, Ed.
15) Marshall, Lorna. "Sharing, Talking and Giving." Pg 69. In Limited Wants, Unlimited Means. John M. Gowdy, Ed.
16) Lee, Richard B. "What Hunters Do For A Living." Pg 50-51. Limited Wants, Unlimited Means. John M. Gowdy, Ed.
17) Post, Laurens van der. "The Lost World of the Kalahari."
18) Ciprini, Lido. The Andaman Islanders.
19) DeVries, Arnold. "Primitive Man and his Food."
20) Levi-Strauss, Claude. "Myth and Meaning"
21) Boyden, S. V. "The Impact of Civilizationon On The Biology of Man."
22) Johanson, Donald and James Shreeve. "Lucy's Child: The Discovery of a Human Ancestor."
23) Binford, Lewis. "Faunal Remains from Klasies River Mouth."
24) Zihlman, Adrienne. "Women as Shapers of the Human Adaptation" in "Women the Gatherer." F Dahlberg, Ed.
25) Binford, Lewis. "Were there elephant hunters at Toorala?"
26) Leacock, Elanor and Richard B. Lee. Editors. "Politics and History in Band Societies."
27) Duffy, Kevin. "Children of the Forest: Africa's Mbuti Pygmies."
28) Radin, Paul."The World of Primitive Man."
29) Bodley, John. "Anthropology and Contemporary Human Problems."
30) Kroeber, Therodora. "Ishi in Two Worlds: A Biography of the Last Wild Indian in North America."
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, May-15-11, 14:24
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,779
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

What meats have 15 to 20% carbs in them?

I've been low-carb for over 8 years and mostly paleo for three. The only thing that wakes me during the night is my dogs.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, May-22-11, 01:25
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

Meat, when digested, becomes glucose, don't know how much though.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, May-22-11, 09:08
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,881
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Where does he get his data for glycogen in meat? Why does the USDA, which does bomb calorimeter analysis of meat, not show such high levels of carbohydrate in meat if this is truly the case?

I agree that SOME paleo diets probably did have a lot of starch, depending on where the population lived and what edible foods were available, but this guy sounds like a crackpot.

My skeptometer is in the red zone.

I didn't see the author's name anywhere either, and there are prominent displays for things he is trying to sell. It looks like an article meant to scare people into buying stuff.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, May-22-11 at 09:20.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, May-22-11, 09:44
OregonRose's Avatar
OregonRose OregonRose is offline
Wag more, bark less.
Posts: 692
 
Plan: Meat.
Stats: 216/149/145 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Eugene
Default

Well, if meat isn't low-carb because because of glycogen, then very, very few modern people are doing a low carb diet either -- he might as well drop the "Paleo Diet" part from his title.

Looks to me like he's trying to generate controversy, get attention, and sell stuff.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, May-22-11, 14:39
Warren D Warren D is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 331
 
Plan: Fatty meat
Stats: 135/135/135 Male 166
BF:11%
Progress:
Location: Ibiza, Spain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonRose
Looks to me like he's trying to generate controversy, get attention, and sell stuff.
Yep. That's all it is.
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