I know I do not have one now as currently I am an emotional eater. But trying to start my new plan feels like it is still all about food. All about what I eat and when I eat. And I think about it constantly. I frequently surf the web for articles on healthy eating.

I just want freedom from all this food stuff. I want to be healthy and I want to lose a little weight but most of all I wish, for me, food could just become about survival. I am tired of food being such a big issue all day long (even when it is about it being healthy). I would love to not think about food except when I was actually, physically hungry. I would love that.

I have barely started and already I feel burned out just from thinking about what I am eating all the time!!!

The first step is getting the carb-cravings out of the picture, so you can start to see what living free of their effects is like. Might take a few months. Then see what your obsession shrinks to.

My point--act your way into better thinking. Eat right, and let your head follow. There are plenty of tricks, too--if you're obsessing about food, try memorizing something to recite instead. There's plenty in the Bible, if you're inclined that way; the US Constitution would do for some. Just to keep your brain full of not-food.

good question. i still think about it all the time. what i should eat and when and why. the preoccupying your mind, hand, time with something else thing didnt work for me. hopefully someone has some advice. im just trying to battle one thing at a time. i think i finally conquored binge & night eating... and emotional eating is next on my list. i have so many food issues. sux

Okay, well, you already are thinking of food as survival...and ironically, THAT is why you're obsessing about food. I know how maddening it is...but here's the scoop, or at least how I understand it:

You are supposed to think about how to get food very, very frequently. Biologically speaking, your body is still in the iron age, where all day was spent either hunting for or cultivating/planting/tilling/pulling your food. It used to be very hard work to get food. That's why it's an inborn drive to constantly be snuffling out some eat-ables. Have you ever watched fish in a bowl? They swim around and around and around and around pulling water into their mouths, maybe getting a tiny microscopic flake of something edible, spitting out the excess water and on & on. Many animals, fish and birds spend the majority of their time hunting out food, as a matter of fact.

The only thing that makes them not fat, and us fat (sorry to use that word) is that when they hunt food, a few hours later, they might find a morsel. Versus us...when we hunt food...four minutes later we're pulling into the parking lot of Dairy Queen (we don't even have to walk there!) to order A LOT of food. All at once.

Don't think you're messed up for planning your food. You may need to accept that some amount of planning is inherent in your nature and it will always exist. I don't know if that's necessarily an unhealthy relationship with food. The only thing that pushes it into the unhealthy range for humans is that humans can satisfy that urge continuously. It's all just a short drive away. What you might do is make a whole bunch of menus...just basic menus, allow for flexibility...and cook up a bunch of stuff or prepare stuff on, say, Sunday (boil a dozen eggs; cut up some cheese & wrap it individually; shred cooked chicken for chicken salad) and then just pull from this big bunch of food each day: "Here's breakfast. Here's lunch. Oh, I'm starving. Well, I can have a piece of this cheese as a snack."

We always think we're so sick and twisted because we "constantly" want food...but we're not sick at all...it is so natural. It's just the availability that makes the end result unhealthy for us. Keep your chin up. You're doing a great job!

Thanks for the replies!

I get what you mean about frequent hunger being a natural thing. But still, I will feel starving within half an hour of eating decent sized meal. I am sure it is all in my head.

And I guess I am just so tired of obsessing about food. When I go out for the day I am always thinking (sometimes panicking) about when I am going to eat or what to do if I get too hungry. Seriously, I will feel panicky about it. It makes no sense to me. If I am extremely busy with something I can go for hours without food but give me space to think and food is all I think about.

And now, with this new eating plan I am getting obsessed with eating "the right" food. And it is exhausting! I feel guilty if I stray. It is as if trying to adhere to this plan is making me obsess more about food than usual.

I just wish I knew how to relax about food.

I'm def. the ocd dieter too. But, I have come to think of it like this: I either obsess about dieting, eating healthy, exercize, etc. or I become obsessed with filling some bottomless pit. It's the lesser of two evils.

interesting...

Dekdah, that is an interesting way to think of it. And I kinda agree but I also would love to just not obsess about food at all. In any way. And I think there has to be a way, doesn't there? Not everyone obsesses about food. Why do I? What in my upbringing or the way I have come to experience the world has made me so prone to using food to solve problems? I don't have any answers. But I really, really want to stop emotional eating. And I really, really want to form a healthy relationship with food.

I have no doubts (none whatsoever!!) that the LC WOL is a fantastic thing for so many people. I love to read all the success stories here and see how much happier and healthier people are. I love to research articles on how much LC and eating good whole foods can make people feel better.

But the flipside for me is that it already seems to be increasing my obsession with food. Deprivation of any kind doesn't work for me. But more than that, it just makes me think about food even more than I was before.

I guess I just keep thinking that there has to be a way I can heal my relationship with food to a point where overeating won't be a way to make myself feel better.

I have never been hugely overweight. But I am worried it is starting to creep up on me now and I feel panicked. I don't want to get any heavier and start to get unhealthy. But I also don't want to obsess about it for the rest of my life either.

I don't know. I feel sad and confused. I want to be healthy and I want to lose a little weight. But more than anything I want a life that is not all about food.

There are a few comments in what you've shared that make me wonder whether there is a physiological link to your thoughts. If you ARE hungry 1/2 hour after eating, something is off. Eating enough fat? I'm not up on neanderthin, so I can't speak to its tenets. When I eat too many carbs, or not enough fat, I will get hungry faster than calories would suggest because of insulin and blood sugar reactions.

My larger point: EVERY breakthrough in my own long struggle with additions has resolved on a PHYSIOLOGICAL break-through, NOT a psychological. Despite YEARS of therapy. It was even my last therapist who said, "You know, that's a lot of carbs, even though they are "healthy." You might want to look at a LC program..."

Now I've added the CAD timing and I find that not overeating is much easier when I follow the one-hour guideline. And I would have sworn it was mixed emotions about being home alone at night...

So I don't know. OCD itself is a biological problem and can be treated; much compulsive eating is driven by insulin and blood sugar swings; it's often NOT "our fault."

Good luck.

Hi cs_carver!

I do think I get more hungry when I eat lots of carbs but the weird thing is, I only get ravenous within 1/2 hour of eating when I have nothing to do. If I am really busy at work or elsewhere, I won't think about food or feel hungry for hours. That is what makes me think that for me, it's mostly mental and emotional and not so much physical. I don't think it is "my fault" but I do think I need to work on my relationship with food. I don't think it is OCD really (although maybe it is), I just think I have used food to solve problems for so long now (most of my life, even) that I do not know how to approach food in a healthy way anymore. It's all about deprivation or overeating. There is no inbetween for me.

I had started LCing twice before (doing a modified Neanderthin) and I did not stick to it very well. And each time I think I stopped because I felt like the whole thing was taking over my life. It was all I was thinking about.

I guess I am just doubting LC in my life right now. And I want to resolve it!!! I just don't want to replace one extreme relationship to food with another. I don't want to wrestle myself into submission to a new way of eating. I'd rather find a way to be relaxed and gentle about myself and food.

1. Have you considered counseling?
From my own experience, the kind of hunger you describe has little to do with real hunger and more to do with boredom. If you can eat right after a meal - what are you really feeding? Know what I mean? Been there - done that. I read with interest how great fat is for making you full - but really - if you eat for boredom, or sadness, or whatever then it doesn't much matter - does it?

[


If you don't "diet", you obsess with eating and over eat.
If you do watch your intake, you obsess with eating the right things/restricting and that opens up a new bag of stressful problems

No matter what you do, you wind up obsessing with food. This is because you have an emotional/psychological disorder with food. The problem isn't food itself, food is benign, objectively neutral organic matter. The problem is the humanizing of food, the way we project emotions on it that is unhealthy and causes conflict. It’s our own subjective aberrant thought processes which lead to the food issues. We as humans give subjective significance and emotional levity to certain foods. Even eating in general is an extremely nurturing experience. All humans and animals experience food on an emotional level, this is natural and normal… the problem we food addicts have is that we take that to extreme levels. I personally believe that our extremism and addictive tendencies are born of a profound emotionality. We give food the power we do because mentally and emotionally, food is alive, electric, it's a loaded thing... it's like dealing with a living being, not an object. Our emotional experience with food is so intense, that the things and experiences food represents to us are akin to the way other people experience living human beings. It's almost as if we regard food as alive, as an entity with free will, with actions, value and properties that can be judged, quantified, divided, and categorized. Sometimes as is seen in severe restrictive food addicts (progressed anorexia), your mental state deteriorates to the point where food stops becoming person-like, and it becomes transpersonal, mythic, godlike, with magical powers.

We see this humanizing of food across the board with all kinds of emotional/psychological eating disorders. Compulsive over eaters will sigh shamefully, blaming nutella for forcing her to consume it all. Progressed compulsive over eaters (binge eaters) can't even have some foods in their home, because they are "powerless" before them and will eat the whole thing.
Compulsive restrictors anxiously and obsessively assign moral worth to food, categorizing it, labeling it good or evil... macadamia nuts are good because it's high fat, cashews are evil because they are higher carb. Splenda is good and safe because it has no calories and carbs, sucrose is bad and dangerous, etc.

What I’m trying to express here is that the problems you have with food and eating are at their root manifesting from the symbolic significance food (or certain foods) has for you. Ask yourself what does food represent to you? Be honest with yourself and seriously think about that question. It took me personally a long time to realize how much of an emotional eater I was, and how abnormal my consumption patterns were. This is an answer that can only come after thoughtful, careful, self-analysis. What properties do you relate to food, causing you to structure your existence around it? I can't answer this question for you. No one can give you this answer. It's different answer for everyone with eating problems, and it is history specific.

Maybe I can give you some examples to guide you, point you in the right direction, and assist in your own healing…
In my personal opinion, there are two basic forms of eating disorder, compulsive restriction and compulsive over eating. All subsequent eating disorders manifest from some combination of this grand archetype.
The most natural and instinctual eating disorder is compulsive over eating. Restrictive eating disorders are secondary. Restrictive eating disorders are, in my opinion, a "higher" form of emotional eating disorder. I don't mean higher as in superior, I mean higher as in more progressed... sort of how diabetes type 2 is a higher form of insulin resistance than hypoglycemia is. You can develop a restrictive eating disorder only after you’ve developed a psychological fixation with over consuming food (even if you never allowed yourself to be obese, restrictive eating disorders can only manifest once the person has developed a preoccupation with consuming food and allowing physical nurturance).

A pure compulsive restrictor (anorexic) might bestow upon food the emotional tone of that moment you break your diet and submit to the base pleasures of ice cream or cake. We all know that feeling in varying degrees... the stomach turning self-hatred, the profound feeling of weakness, powerlessness, gluttony,
failure, and general inadequacy. If you are extreme/obsessive minded enough, after a long enough time of this conditioning (dieting) eventually partaking in normal rituals of food and eating, as well as carrying a normal amount of physical weight becomes as repulsive and undesirable as the concept of rolling around like a pig in mud. Diets (and western culture in general) teaches people to associate eating with loaded emotional concepts like having no worth, being guilty, and being a powerless weakling. On the other hand, restricting equals being good, being pure/cleansed, and being powerful. Assuming the individual has underlying emotional disorders (low self esteem, self hatred) and/or a certain temperament (extreme, excessive, single-minded, competitive, obsessive, and/or perfectionist), this seeding from dieting and cultural bombardment can result or contribute to restrictive EDs.

Then on the other end of the scale, a compulsive over eater might relate to food and eating the emotional resonance of childhood weekends with your favorite aunt, making cookies or pies or other airy, light, comforting foods. The tone of the occasion will be recalled in every mouthful of food. You will recall the feelings of warm hand made blankets protecting you from the falling snow outside. You will recall her maternal presence nurturing you, protecting you from pain and hurt and discomfort. The rich, smooth, soft warm cookies consumed reinforced the whole thing.
Even if you aren't thinking these thoughts while you are eating, you have conditioned yourself to associate feelings of comfort (the environment and food was intensely pleasurable), self-worth (she loved you), value (she valued you), and being protected (the environment and food barricaded you from experiencing pain) with food in general or certain foods. The result of this conditioning is that every time you feel discomfort, every time you feel rejected, like you have no value, and that you are "bare", you will seek out foods which remind you of the better, simpler times experienced in childhood. Our extreme, excessive emotionality and disposition means that normal small symbolic amounts of food aren’t enough… you will eat and eat all day, past hunger, just for the sensation and nurturance of it. You might not necessarily be thinking about the occasions in question while eating, but the feelings you associate with the past will be brought back by eating the cookie, or cake, or whatever it is.

As a side note, I think too many people who are compulsive over eaters think they have a problem with "carbs" when what they really have a problem with is emotional eating. Most people tend to eat fat/sugar combination foods for comfort, because these are the treat foods that are typically eaten during highly pleasurable and emotionally intense milestones in life. The physical problem with carbs, if one does exist, is reactionary to the compulsive over eating of them to make one feel good. Strong evidence supporting (that like all addictions, "carb addiction" is primarily an emotional problem) is the fact that even when "detoxed" supposed carb addicts often go back to sugar... just like junkies and alcoholics who aren't dealing with the emotional side, you won't stay clean if you don't figure out why you became an addict in the first place.

Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say in all this is that ultimately you and I are dealing with an emotional and a psychological problem. Food is the physical manifestation of emotions and concepts and experiences for us. I think you are making a mistake by focusing on the food itself and the inconvenience of the obsession, instead of trying to get to the root of that fascination and obsession and preoccupation. Are you preoccupied because you diet too much and restrict too intensely? Do you restrict too intensely because you are preoccupied with food and compulsively eat? What is the source of this preoccupation? Is it because you are stressed, not getting enough sleep, not capable of properly expressing your intense emotionality? I can’t say what it is for you. I can barely verbalize the extent of my own food issues, nevermind outline the ones of a stranger.

The only thing I do know is that this has very little to do with food itself and everything to do with thoughs and feelings and personal experience/temperament. In order to free yourself from this, you must first recognize what it is you are gaining from food. You can only recognize what that is by first figuring out why you are turning to food, why it is dominating your life. I wish there was a way I could tell you what to do to make the obsession go away, but I can't. I still have the obsession, even though it has gotten better.

Here are some tips...
1) I'm fast figuring out that excessive restriction is caustic to healing from compulsive over eating. In other words, don't obsess with the carb thing. It reinforces the underlying problem (food obsession/excessive emotinality), it just masks the symptoms (for awhile at least). It gives a false mask of control. it really isn't necessary to count carbs or to consciously restrict to really benefit from it physically... IMO the counting of carbs and calories and all that crap is just a way to mask (deal with the symptoms) of compulsive eating. It makes the disease worse in the long run.
If you are to be free from this prison, we must let go moral and judgement and worth from certain foods and quantity and size. It's very, very, very hard to do. I've not managed to get past this yet. The more I let go of compulsive eating, the more I find myself replacing it with restriction. It's tricky, and dangerous, but ultimately I know it has to be done. Slowly I'm starting to convince myself that my feelings and thoughts are valid and worth confronting. Instead of eating (or restricting) I write them out on paper, or paint/draw, do something creative. I'm slowly getting over my moral hangups with food and consumption, and the fear of it all. I'm still far from progressed though, and the ultimate answer remains illusive. I imagine the answer will come to you and I after more research, introspection, growth and learning.

2) Self analysis and introspection is crucial to recovery. There's no way around this. You need to spend some time with you, figuring out what is the source of your obsession. What emotions, concepts, experiences, or need is food supplying/fueling? Once this is identified, you can begin to release the habits of old and replace them with more healthier practices. For example, if you feel worthless because someone put you down, so you start to eat... instead you can learn to identify why you want to eat, and confront that individual, reclaiming your power and self worth without doing anything self destructive.

Once you identify what you are getting from food, and replace the destructive coping mechanisms (eating or restricting) with progressive ones (actually DEALING with whatever is triggering your sensitivity), slowly food becomes less and less compelling. You can let go of conscious restriction. You can again trust yourself with cookies and cake. You won't want to eat the former all day, because the only value they have to people is on a sensual, nurturing level. You'll want to eat a staple of real healthful food of your own volition, you won't have to be forced into it by Dr. Atkins. Those sensual foods will become a backdrop in your life, one used to heighten the sensation of life, and you can consume them in moderation. All of this can only come after a long hard road of self discovery and introspection though. A better quality of life and freedom from addiction is a worthwhile goal, I think.

ItsTheWoo!

Wow, that you so much for your detailed response. It is very, very insightful and helpful. I had starting thinking much along these lines on Thursday (when I first started this thread) and was getting very frustrated. I did not know what to do to solve it. I started researching and I found this book (which I bought on Saturday and I am now over halfway through). It has been an eye opening experience.

I do not know that it is for everyone, but for me it is amazing. And it addresses and encourages exploration of many of the things you brought up in your post. It is called, "Fed Up!" and it is by Wendy Oliver-Pyatt, MD (she's got a website aboutit too). She is a psychiatrist who has been through an eating diorder and now counsels people with eating disorders. Her book is about learning to stop "dieting" and instead learn to trust yourself and your experience of hunger. Basically, she teaches you how to get over emotional eating (and where it is rooted in your own life) and learn how to recognize and feed physical hunger (and how to stop when you are satisfied). The book goes much deeper than I am explaining in this post (I am not very good at explaining things). Again, it may not be for everyone. I know lots of people experience fantastic success on LC diets and overcome their issues with food. And I think that is wonderful. But for me, it seems to be making them worse.

One thing she talks about a lot in her book and that I saw in your post was the idea that we assign good/bad labels to food that can really mess up our relationship with food. And that it is these labels (and what you referred to as humanizing our food) that gives it the power it has over our lives and eventually leads to us overeating or restricting. Interesting stuff.

Good luck with everything and thank you again for your intelligent (and clear) analysis of the issues!!!

-J