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-   -   atkis vs south beach (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=255875)

misjudi Thu, Jun-30-05 13:56

atkis vs south beach
 
What is the difference? I'm so confused on that. I'm on atkins right now, but does south beach work better?

Judynyc Thu, Jun-30-05 14:19

You do need to read the South Beach book to get a real understanding of how it works!! :idea:

Its basically a low glycemic index food plan.

Here are some of my thoughts:

we don't count carbs...we don't eat high fat protein or dairy while we do eat lots of fish and poultry and very lean red meat....we eat lots and lots of veggies...we are not a low carb as we are a good carb food plan......and last but not least...this aint no diet!! its a way of eating for the rest of our lives!! :D

Click on the link in my signature to see the food lists and meal plan charts.

Good luck! :D

rock chick Thu, Jun-30-05 14:25

Hi ! :wave:

You're confused ????? me too :confused:

I asked one of my friends ( who has been on every diet invented ) and she totally baffled me.
Something about if you have a target area for losing weight i.e 'Waist' you eat certain foods for that area and mentioning something about wild berries and wild hog or something ( only joking about the last comment but it was beginning to sound like it by the time she had finished I was completely cabbaged :bash:

I would stick on Atkins if I were you sweetie !

Judynyc Thu, Jun-30-05 14:30

Quote:
I asked one of my friends ( who has been on every diet invented ) and she totally baffled me.
Something about if you have a target area for losing weight i.e 'Waist' you eat certain foods for that area and mentioning something about wild berries and wild hog or something ( only joking about the last comment but it was beginning to sound like it by the time she had finished I was completely cabbaged


Thanks for sharing your South Beach experience!! Your friend sounds like she's a bit confused too!! :lol:

Calbug Fri, Jul-01-05 16:08

No dairy? I thought we could have yogurt and cottage cheese.

foxgluvs Fri, Jul-01-05 16:14

No I think judy meant not high fat dairy.

I have changed over (with Judy's assistance) and it's been an easy transistion, and it seemed really daunting at first.
I can only talk from experience but I have changed from atkins to SB and lost 13lbs in a month.
Obviously your milage may vary!!

If you're interested then like judy says you should look at the link in her signature, it's a really good simple way to understand what you can have on SB.

sherrybabe Fri, Jul-01-05 16:18

we can!!! just go to the food link on the bottom of judys signature,or get a south beach book and read it.as for the other person said ,she has this diet confused with another plan. we can eat low fat cottage cheese, and fat free plain yougurt that you can add a lil bit of vannilla and slpenda to make it very good.

Calbug Fri, Jul-01-05 16:24

I started losing when I switched from Atkins to SB, too. I was surprised because I felt like I was eating more and cheating! :D

Judynyc Fri, Jul-01-05 19:04

Quote:
judy meant not high fat dairy.



Yes! That is exactly what I meant!! :agree:

Thanks for clarifying that Hazel!!

Dodger Fri, Jul-01-05 19:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
Its basically a low glycemic index food plan.

Here are some of my thoughts:

we don't count carbs...we don't eat high fat protein or dairy while we do eat lots of fish and poultry and very lean red meat....we eat lots and lots of veggies...we are not a low carb as we are a good carb food plan......and last but not least...this aint no diet!! its a way of eating for the rest of our lives!!


As an Atkins advocate, I must respond.

We count carbs (especially in the induction phase) as they are evil and wicked and lead to much disorder within the body. We, like the heathen South Beachers, eat lots and lots of veggies. We eat high fat and good tasting meats such as fish and poultry, along with steaks and chops. We eat high fat dairy such as good tasting cheeses and butter. We shun items labeled low-fat or with trans-fats in them.

In reality, both eating plans result in healthier bodies and reduced chances of being overweight. It all depends upon which one you can live with for the rest of your life. I prefer Atkins because I have had great results with it and can eat foods that I enjoy.

Judynyc Fri, Jul-01-05 21:17

Thanks for your rundown Mike.

We are not here to debate which plan is better. This is not a debate forum but a support forum. If we wanted to debate this, which we don't, we'd take this to the War Zone.

When members come in here and ask us Atkins vs South Beach, I think it is up to the original oster of the thread to make their own choice. We are not trying to swy opinion or sell this plan. We are trying to explain the differences.

Many atkins users do not go beyond induction and stay at 20 carbs a day and they do stop losign weight. Many are afraid to to go the OWL phase of atkins because they are afraid of adding good carbs back into their food plan. This is a mistake!! From what I've seen, those who are successful on Atkins do move into the OWL phase and do add carbs back into their plan.

I went to Atkins Nutritionals site to read about OWL phase to try to understand why there was so much fear and confusion around adding carbs back. What I came away with was seeing how hard and scary it is to move into this phase according to the formula that they tell you to use.

One of the things that makes this plan work for me is the ease that I moved inot phase II of this plan. They make it easy to learn which carbs work and which don't for our individual bodies. I find myslef meeting many here that I encourage to move inot OWL phase because they have stopped losing...I don't try to get them to come over to the heathens!! :D :lol:

Thanks for your point of view!!

plumtired Fri, Jul-01-05 22:08

Well, for my WOE/WOL, I definitely, 100% prefer the South Beach WOE than the Atkins. YES, I have been on the Atkins several years ago and lost weight fast, but put it back on and then some because I could not stick to that WOE. It really is a preference in which way you want to lose the weight. I appreciate learning about good carbs, bad carbs and good fats, bad fats. Hey, and I got my little period after 10 years of being annovulatory/infertile, so that has to say something about the plan for me personally. I never got my period with the Atkins. With that said, I am so, so happy.

My dh is so happy for me and very supportive (always has been) that because of my results, he is recommending this WOE to his patients. He's seen first-hand how it works and what health benefits result from it. You really do, do, do need to read the book. In fact, read both books and see what way of eating would best suit you. I'm not against the Atkins if that is the way you want to go, but for me personally prefer the good carbs & good fats WOE/WOL. I feel that I can always stick to this WOE for life. That's important to me.

Best wishes on making a decision!

Plumtired :)
(who has lost 19 pounds since 5/20/05 on South Beach)

MissScruff Fri, Jul-01-05 22:18

I counted carbs at first, but after getting used to understanding which veggies were good carbs and bad carbs, well it has been super easy to follow! And, the weight has come off easily enough. I don't track which level of the ladder I should be on, but do listen to my body and of course don't eat sugar and flour. You should definitely educate yourself on which plan is best for you...while I don't proclaim to be an expert on South Beach, I am also not an expert on Atkins. I just know when I ate low cal/low fat...well I was always hungry and while I did lose weight eating that way, I was miserable! Now, on Atkins I don't get hungry...ever and am now 157 pounds down and 10 to go. Research each eating style and pick the plan that suits you as an individual. Don't take our words or experiences...find out for yourself. Obviously, both plans work.

plumtired Fri, Jul-01-05 22:28

MissScruff, well said. I feel the exact same way as you! ;)

sherrybabe Sat, Jul-02-05 09:57

this is not the war zone. like they said .i find this site a huge support of my CHOICE of woe.i come here to talk to other people who are making positive changes in thier personal health and mental well being,to make friends and see if i can offer my friendship and encouragement. allllll i have to say to any one trying to make a choice is read both BOOKS. not just listen to what you hear from other people.differnt things work for differnt people.

JAnn Sat, Jul-02-05 17:44

Since Dodger stated that both plans work, I took his heathen comment as an attempt at humor.

Just my opinion.

Judynyc Sat, Jul-02-05 20:02

Yes, it was Dodger's dry attempt at humor! I thought it was funny!! ;)

geauxleaux Tue, Jul-05-05 09:24

Thanks!
 
I agree that Dodger's comment was tongue-in-cheek (is tongue low carb? :lol: ). I also appreciate Judy's in-depth and helpful explanation of the SB plan (I've read some of her other threads).

I am on Atkins and have been stalled for seven months. I am still happy with Atkins, however, because losing slowly beats gaining at any speed!!!! I did come over here just to check out the SB plan (I've read the books for both plans and am very familiar with the concepts). Because of the stall, I thought I might want to try SB since both plans are solid and DO work.

I agree, however, that you have to decide which plan is right for YOU. While I don't mind counting carbs, for me personally, I don't want to have to count fat. I loathe low-fat food and I know that the lower-fat aspect of SB is the one factor that would derail any success I may have - after all, it's something I want to be able to live with as a lifestyle. Even with the stall on Atkins, I am still maintaining, and I'm not discouraged - I eat what I love, which is higher fat low carb. I've never had a sweet tooth, so kicking the sweets was easy: it's the fat I love!!!! However, I know several people who don't like high-fat and have had FANTASTIC success on SB!!!! :cool: YMMV.

So, in my long-winded, rambling way, I am just supporting the fact that BOTH plans work, but since both plans are NOT diets but (hopefully) WOL's, you need to read both books and decide on a personal level which plan YOU are most likely to stick to. Good luck to all!

Judynyc Fri, Jul-08-05 09:04

This was written by Its The Wooo from another thread. Its a brilliant explanation of the difference between the 2 plans!!

Quote:
Atkins goal is not ketosis, in fact he explicitly says not to get too wrapped up in the strips and to focus more on changes in well being and appearance. Atkins need not even be ketogenic, the induction phase is optional.
The goals of both Atkins and South Beach is to control blood sugar and insulin levels, thereby preventing undesirable consequences of not doing so such as many diseases and obesity.

Atkins and South Beach differ only in their respective approaches to achieving this goal. Atkins believes heart disease and sicknesses of all kinds are overwhelmingly or exclusively caused by uncontrolled blood sugar and high insulin levels. He believes that fat is not part of the problem, and fat only causes a problem if blood sugar and insulin are out of control. He feels there's nothing wrong with any natural fat, the only fat you need to worry about are damaged processed fats (for example, rancid grease that has been repeatedly fried, hydrogenated veggie oils, etc). Atkins also believes that the best way to achieve this goal of controlling blood sugar is to reduce total carbohydrate quantity, focusing on the very low impact carbs like veggies berries and dairy.

South Beach's creator Dr Agatson, like Atkins, believes blood sugar and high insulin cause diseases and obesity. Agatson, unlike Atkins, subscribes to the lipid hypothesis and feels some natural fats are "good" and some are "bad". Like atkins he feels processed fats are bad, however he also feels too much saturated fat is a risk factor for disease and it is not encouraged. Adherents are asked to choose oils and margerines over saturated fat, this restriction does not exist on Atkins' plan.
The main way Agatson and Atkins differ is their approach to controlling blood sugar and insulin. Agatson's plan is low glycemic index, not low carb. You don't count carbs on SB. Agatson feels total carbohydrate quantity is not as important as eating "low impact carbs" - carbs that are low on the glycemic index which is a measure of how quickly a food causes blood sugar to rise. Total carbohydrate quantity is not restricted, just types of carbs. Both Atkins and Agatson stress structuring proper meals with adequate protein and fat, although Agatson's plan stresses protein over fat. It is necessary Agatson's plan be lower fat and stress low fat foods, due to the fact it includes more energy from carbohydrate (otherwise people would fail to lose weight if they ate generously from fat and carbs)... although it should be mentioned SB is not a low fat diet in the objective sense (fat is not explicitly reduced as a goal).


Mainly the difference is that SB is a low glycemic index plan. It focuses on WHAT you eat, not how much of what you're eating. Atkins is low carb before it is low glycemic index, although it should be mentioned a low carb plan is by default low GI too (it will in fact be much lower GL, since carb quantity in diet is the biggest factor which determines how much sugar is used by the body, not how "complex" the carbs you do eat are).

Each plan has respective advantages and disadvantages.
Those who are more extremely carbohydrate sensitive will find greater success with Atkins. It is the most effective popular plan for controlling insulin and blood sugar levels. If your weight and health issues are stemming from carbohydrate sensitivity almost exclusively, I would recommend this plan in a heart beat.
I also would recommend Atkins if you are a meat-craver, a protein & fat lover, and if you never were too fond of sugars or starches and really liked the meat and fat. Atkins is also an ideal plan for those who don't like details, who want things straightforward and simple, who don't mind a limited diet of a few staple foods. Atkins is popular among men for these two reasons, whereas women tend to have more problems with the diet because women tend to both crave sugar & carbs as well as prefer a more liberalized diet with more choices. I'm a lucky exception, I am a meat lover myself .
Anyway, if this is you, odds are you won't feel restricted or deprived on it and won't have any problems adapting to substitutes. You'll have good success.
The downside of Atkins is that it's very restricted and limited. Those who crave freedom in choices and variety don't do well on this plan. Those who are sweet and carb eaters might fail to stay on for long and usually switch to a more liberal plan.

On the other hand, if you have more moderate carbohydrate sensitivity, I would suggest the more liberal South Beach. Odds are it's low GI approach will be enough to resolve your problems with unstable blood sugar, without unnecessarily restricting you to a staple of fat and very few carbs until maintainance, like Atkins would. If your weight gain stems mostly from bad habits and unstructured eating unrelated to carbohydrate sensitivity, again SB will be better for you. Atkins advice to "eat liberally" from founts of cream steak and butter isn't good advice for someone who is an emotional eater, as the appetite rectifying effect of the diet is not as pronounced for someone without carbohydrate sensitivity. SB's focus on structuring proper meals and learning how to make good choices is far better for someone who has a weight problem primarily because of eating poorly and having bad habits.
Finally, I would suggest south beach if you are a primary sweet/carb craver as SBD teaches you how to have these foods without destroying blood sugar as badly.
The downside of SB is that it's liberal approach isn't well tolerated by everyone. Those who are very carb sensitive, or those who tend to just crave more of what they DO eat by nature aren't likely to succeed with this plan. The more structured and limited Atkins would be more effective.

plumtired Fri, Jul-08-05 09:49

I read that and was impressed with the writing of it. I'm going to print that up. Thanks Judy for bringing it over here.

sherrybabe Fri, Jul-08-05 12:52

i agree with you guys the wooo did very good !! i thought that too.i was inpressed.

emmy207 Sat, Jul-09-05 02:56

South Beach means I can have a slice of rye toast for breakfast and not eat cream, without feeling that I am cheating.

starchile Tue, Apr-16-13 16:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
This was written by Its The Wooo from another thread. Its a brilliant explanation of the difference between the 2 plans!!

Atkins goal is not ketosis, in fact he explicitly says not to get too wrapped up in the strips and to focus more on changes in well being and appearance. Atkins need not even be ketogenic, the induction phase is optional.
The goals of both Atkins and South Beach is to control blood sugar and insulin levels, thereby preventing undesirable consequences of not doing so such as many diseases and obesity.

Atkins and South Beach differ only in their respective approaches to achieving this goal. Atkins believes heart disease and sicknesses of all kinds are overwhelmingly or exclusively caused by uncontrolled blood sugar and high insulin levels. He believes that fat is not part of the problem, and fat only causes a problem if blood sugar and insulin are out of control. He feels there's nothing wrong with any natural fat, the only fat you need to worry about are damaged processed fats (for example, rancid grease that has been repeatedly fried, hydrogenated veggie oils, etc). Atkins also believes that the best way to achieve this goal of controlling blood sugar is to reduce total carbohydrate quantity, focusing on the very low impact carbs like veggies berries and dairy.

South Beach's creator Dr Agatson, like Atkins, believes blood sugar and high insulin cause diseases and obesity. Agatson, unlike Atkins, subscribes to the lipid hypothesis and feels some natural fats are "good" and some are "bad". Like atkins he feels processed fats are bad, however he also feels too much saturated fat is a risk factor for disease and it is not encouraged. Adherents are asked to choose oils and margerines over saturated fat, this restriction does not exist on Atkins' plan.
The main way Agatson and Atkins differ is their approach to controlling blood sugar and insulin. Agatson's plan is low glycemic index, not low carb. You don't count carbs on SB. Agatson feels total carbohydrate quantity is not as important as eating "low impact carbs" - carbs that are low on the glycemic index which is a measure of how quickly a food causes blood sugar to rise. Total carbohydrate quantity is not restricted, just types of carbs. Both Atkins and Agatson stress structuring proper meals with adequate protein and fat, although Agatson's plan stresses protein over fat. It is necessary Agatson's plan be lower fat and stress low fat foods, due to the fact it includes more energy from carbohydrate (otherwise people would fail to lose weight if they ate generously from fat and carbs)... although it should be mentioned SB is not a low fat diet in the objective sense (fat is not explicitly reduced as a goal).


Mainly the difference is that SB is a low glycemic index plan. It focuses on WHAT you eat, not how much of what you're eating. Atkins is low carb before it is low glycemic index, although it should be mentioned a low carb plan is by default low GI too (it will in fact be much lower GL, since carb quantity in diet is the biggest factor which determines how much sugar is used by the body, not how "complex" the carbs you do eat are).

Each plan has respective advantages and disadvantages.
Those who are more extremely carbohydrate sensitive will find greater success with Atkins. It is the most effective popular plan for controlling insulin and blood sugar levels. If your weight and health issues are stemming from carbohydrate sensitivity almost exclusively, I would recommend this plan in a heart beat.
I also would recommend Atkins if you are a meat-craver, a protein & fat lover, and if you never were too fond of sugars or starches and really liked the meat and fat. Atkins is also an ideal plan for those who don't like details, who want things straightforward and simple, who don't mind a limited diet of a few staple foods. Atkins is popular among men for these two reasons, whereas women tend to have more problems with the diet because women tend to both crave sugar & carbs as well as prefer a more liberalized diet with more choices. I'm a lucky exception, I am a meat lover myself .
Anyway, if this is you, odds are you won't feel restricted or deprived on it and won't have any problems adapting to substitutes. You'll have good success.
The downside of Atkins is that it's very restricted and limited. Those who crave freedom in choices and variety don't do well on this plan. Those who are sweet and carb eaters might fail to stay on for long and usually switch to a more liberal plan.

On the other hand, if you have more moderate carbohydrate sensitivity, I would suggest the more liberal South Beach. Odds are it's low GI approach will be enough to resolve your problems with unstable blood sugar, without unnecessarily restricting you to a staple of fat and very few carbs until maintainance, like Atkins would. If your weight gain stems mostly from bad habits and unstructured eating unrelated to carbohydrate sensitivity, again SB will be better for you. Atkins advice to "eat liberally" from founts of cream steak and butter isn't good advice for someone who is an emotional eater, as the appetite rectifying effect of the diet is not as pronounced for someone without carbohydrate sensitivity. SB's focus on structuring proper meals and learning how to make good choices is far better for someone who has a weight problem primarily because of eating poorly and having bad habits.
Finally, I would suggest south beach if you are a primary sweet/carb craver as SBD teaches you how to have these foods without destroying blood sugar as badly.
The downside of SB is that it's liberal approach isn't well tolerated by everyone. Those who are very carb sensitive, or those who tend to just crave more of what they DO eat by nature aren't likely to succeed with this plan. The more structured and limited Atkins would be more effective.


WOW! That was INCREDIBLY helpful! Thank you for sharing this!!

Also, if there is anyone here on SB and looking for some support...I could use some as well.

:o)

Judynyc Tue, Apr-16-13 17:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by starchile
WOW! That was INCREDIBLY helpful! Thank you for sharing this!!

Also, if there is anyone here on SB and looking for some support...I could use some as well.

:o)

HI! :wave:
I'm glad you found this. It is really good.
While I used South Beach for my initial weight loss, I learned how to modify to make it work better for me. If you need any help, come look for me in my journal. :agree:

Good Luck! :thup:

Molly B Tue, Oct-21-14 16:39

I think JudyNYC summed it up well, a good carbs (low glycemic carbs) WOE rather than a strict LC WOE. Included is a small amount of fruit or grain.

Benay Sun, Oct-26-14 04:55

I have always found the GI problematic as it did not take into consideration amount. Glycemic Load helped me more as I could see how a food rated as low GI could actually be very high GL. Atkins has always incorporated GL (particularly the new Westman et al AFANY) in the program. Foundation vegetables in Induction are both low GI and low GL. The carb ladder emphasizes low GL.

For me, since I am very carb sensitive, I could not follow SB. Too many carbs, too early in weight loss. The last phase is going back to the way you were eating when you gained all your weight. Atkins, on the other hand, is a program of self discovery for you to find out for yourself what foods are a no-no for you personally. It is not a program of fats until maintenance. Whoever wrote that is not that familiar with Atkins. The last stage is eating the foods and in their quantities that will keep you from regaining any weight. It is not about going back to what you did to gain weight. For me, I found SB more hype than science. More about pleasing the consumer than helping them to discover their own issues. This, of course, is just my own opinion. The program does work for some, especially those that are not carb-sensetive and is very popular.

Judynyc Sun, Oct-26-14 12:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
I have always found the GI problematic as it did not take into consideration amount. Glycemic Load helped me more as I could see how a food rated as low GI could actually be very high GL. Atkins has always incorporated GL (particularly the new Westman et al AFANY) in the program. Foundation vegetables in Induction are both low GI and low GL. The carb ladder emphasizes low GL.

For me, since I am very carb sensitive, I could not follow SB. Too many carbs, too early in weight loss. The last phase is going back to the way you were eating when you gained all your weight. Atkins, on the other hand, is a program of self discovery for you to find out for yourself what foods are a no-no for you personally. It is not a program of fats until maintenance. Whoever wrote that is not that familiar with Atkins. The last stage is eating the foods and in their quantities that will keep you from regaining any weight. It is not about going back to what you did to gain weight. For me, I found SB more hype than science. More about pleasing the consumer than helping them to discover their own issues. This, of course, is just my own opinion. The program does work for some, especially those that are not carb-sensetive and is very popular.

"To each his own."
Good for you that you've found a way to eat that works for you. I tailored South Beach to suit my needs and made it work for me. :D

Whofan Sun, Oct-26-14 14:51

I tried Atkins 14 years ago, lost 10lbs in a week, and stopped out of fear from all the stupid media misinformation surrounding it.

10 years later, fatter and in ill-health, I went to SB. I tailored it twice to work for me. Once, at the very beginning, I eliminated all grains and sugar except a few berries. That way I didn't even have to think about carbohydrates, because the only ones I was getting were green and leafy and harmless. Later, having lost all my weight, I tweaked it again to change from low fat products (like yogurt and cheese) to full fat. I did that because by then I had learned that extra sugar and chemicals are usually substituted for fat in low fat products and, for the first time in my life, I had become interested in eating for optimal health and not just to be slim. That eventually lead toward a lc paleo/primal w.o.e. that seems to be a perfect fit for me, so far.

So IMO it's all good. If one method doesn't work, try another. And another. There are plenty of choices now. Just keep your eye on the prize: stable blood sugar, weight loss, and a w.o.e. you are happy to maintain for the rest of your life.

Benay Mon, Oct-27-14 03:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
We are not here to debate which plan is better. This is not a debate forum but a support forum. If we wanted to debate this, which we don't, we'd take this to the War Zone.

When members come in here and ask us Atkins vs South Beach, I think it is up to the original oster of the thread to make their own choice. We are not trying to swy opinion or sell this plan. We are trying to explain the differences.
!!


We all have our preferences on what works best for us. Atkins is definitely a high fat diet compared to SB. Some people do not do well on Atkins as what the program is trying to do is get our bodies to switch to 'fat burning' machines rather than 'carb burning' machines. This just doesn't work for some and they do very well just reducing carbs and fat.

SB is a low fat diet which works well for many people.

If SB works for you--great! Stick with it. Do you own experimentation. Atkins works best for people who have trouble with carbs (carbohydrate intolerance). I have friends who eat anything they want, in any amount, and never gain or lose a pound year in and year out. Others can't. So try the different approaches and find what works for you. Good luck.

mojolissa Tue, Nov-18-14 18:58

I'm trying something new...South Beach Diet Super Charged!

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think the concept is the same as the original South Beach, but adding in weight training and cardio to increase initial weight loss. I need a kick in the butt! I have been losing and gaining the same 10 or 20 pounds over and over and over.....


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