Vegan diets could be adding to malnutrition in wealthy countries
 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018...althy-countries

Eating a plant-based diet may lower the risk of chronic disease and is good for the environment, but poorly planned vegan diets that do not replace the critical nutrients found in meat, can lead to serious micronutrient deficiencies.

Bone health is a concern for long-term vegans. Vegans are consistently reported to have lower intakes of calcium and vitamin D, with resultant lower blood levels of vitamin D and lower bone mineral density reported worldwide. Fracture rates are also nearly a third higher among vegans compared with the general population.

Omega 3 and iodine levels are also lower compared with meat eaters, as are vitamin B12 levels. Vitamin B12 is most often obtained from animal foods, and higher rates of deficiency have been found in vegans compared with other vegetarians and meat eaters. The symptoms can be serious and include extreme tiredness and weakness, poor digestion and developmental delays in young children. Untreated, vitamin B12 deficiency can cause irreversible nerve damage.

While getting less than the optimal amount of B12 is quite common in pregnant women and in less-developed countries, the reported frequencies of deficiencies among vegetarians and vegans in developed countries vary greatly in severity between age groups. Even low levels of vitamin B12, but not enough to be classed as deficient, may be bad for your health and increase your risk of heart disease.

Really? It is my understanding that B12 is ONLY obtained from animal foods. Am I wrong in this?

Yes and no. Almost no plant-based foods contain any B12 naturally. One notable exception is a purple seaweed (scientific name: Porphyra umbilicalis).



Additionally, a fair number of plant-based processed products are fortified with B12. The B12 used for fortification is derived from bacteria cultures. Bacteria are not considered to be "animals" or "plants" They are classified as a separate kingdom. So Vegans typically are okay with consuming products produced by bacteria. But, if a vegan wants to eat ONLY natural, unprocessed foods and doesn't want to take supplements, about the only way they can get the B12 they need is by consuming seaweed.



And BTW, in actual fact, the B12 we carnivores and omnivores consume, although found naturally in meat, is not really and animal product. It is actually produced by bacteria living in the digestive systems of the animals we eat!

Also, the same caveat about whole foods happens: there are many cases of a vegan "doing it right" and supplementing B12, but they hit a health wall anyway.

I'm reminded of what I learned from Dr. Ede, who points out that a lab reading on a certain nutrient in vegetables might not mean anything if only 10% is bio-available. I wonder if B-12 not from animal sources has similar roadblocks?

Thanks Bev; I learn something new here almost every time I visit :-)

My own little n=1, a few years ago I dabbled with Dr. Furhman's 'Eat to Live' program, which is a vegan plan in disguise (not advertised as such but it's a plant based program with very strict rules). I enjoyed it for a while, but soon felt run down and then started losing my hair. Realized that's because I had a very low fat diet because of the plan's rules. That's when I dropped the plan. I admire those who are vegans because they have true convictions for animal compassion issues, but I just don't see how eating a completely plant based diet long term can actually be healthy.

I lost my admiration as soon as I started seeing doctors pressured to accept veganism as appropriate for children and infants. I don't exactly see veganism as an eating disorder, although I think it can be for many people. But mainstream acceptance has been quick and, for some, led to fatal consequences. We are all required in life to grapple with uncomfortable facts of our own existence. And veganism denies human-ness. We can't deny ourselves.

I think it's absolutely an eating disorder, it's cause could be from many different reasons.
I've seen two types of people, one skinny and underfed, looking weak and then the overweight type, eating anything and everything that isn't meat.
Strangely, I think many of them don't eat the wide variety of veggies you would hope they do. That's where all of the fake, lookalike food comes in with the processed soy meal concoctions.

Love this statement. :thup::thup::thup:

Being a vegan enables one to consume a wide ranging selection of plant-based foods including many that aren't healthy, and if one doesn't design a vegan WOE that considers essential nutrients that aren't found in plants and eliminate high glycemic veggies, fruits, and other sugar contributing foods which can contribute to high rates of blood glucose, one can have a very rough go.

One thing that really disturbs me is how the issues surrounding the ethical treatment of animals, and the environmentally sound treatment of the environment including the land and the air get conflated with human health issues so that somehow people end up arguing that all our problems would be greatly lessened if not solved if we just all stopped eating meat, our health would improve, the lives of animals would improve, the environment would improve. I'm not buying it. These are all worthy goals, treat animals ethically, treat the environment soundly, treat the health of humans intelligently, but first truly study the issues and don't go for simplified answers with no scientific merit, just a lot of bias and holier than thou proselytizing.

I also have compassion for food animals. But Im NOT vegan. And Im NOT vegetarian.

Best source of B12 is beef.Absorbable, too.

Well stated, and when some linked eating meat from farm raised livestock to climate change, I thought it was the perfect storm of unsettled science and rampant bias.

The way I figure it is this way: I have the teeth of an omnivore, I have the digestive tract of an omnivore and I have the digestive enzymes of an omnivore - therefore it isn't rocket science that I should eat an omnivorous diet.

I have read that the B12, iron and BCAAs found in vegetable food are poorly absorbed by the human body. Of course I don't believe everything I read, but some of these statements came from reasonably trusted sources.

Bob

There are zillions of acres of grasslands that would cause a destruction of the planet to farm. It would take mega-tons of artificial fertilizers, mega-tons of herbicides, and more fresh water than we have available to turn these grasslands into farmlands. But you can put ruminant animals on them with little or no care as long as you don't overgraze.

You should farm crops in flood prone riverbeds (move the houses out of the way) and raise grazers in the grasslands. Don't fight the earth, let the earth help us.

Bob

The reality is, all food is violence. If it wasn't, we'd be in the Garden of Eden. We disturb and kill no matter how we eat.